Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Omaha Steve

(99,653 posts)
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 10:58 PM Mar 2014

Black box detector to join Malaysian jet search

Source: AP-Excite

By ROB GRIFFITH and GILLIAN WONG

PERTH, Australia (AP) - A warship with an aircraft black box detector was set to depart Australia on Sunday to join the search for the missing Malaysian jetliner, a day after ships plucked objects from the Indian Ocean to determine whether they were related to the missing plane. None were confirmed to be from the plane, leaving searchers with no sign of the jet more than three weeks after it disappeared.

Twenty-nine Chinese family members, seeking answers from Malaysia's government as to what happened to their loved ones, arrived in Kuala Lumpur on Sunday, said Malaysia Airlines commercial director Hugh Dunleavy.
Two-thirds of the 227 passengers aboard Flight 370 were Chinese, and their relatives have expressed deep frustration with Malaysian authorities since the plane went missing.

It will still take three-to-four days for the Australian navy ship, the Ocean Shield, to reach the search zone - an area roughly the size of Poland about 1,850 kilometers (1,150 miles) to the west of Australia.
The Australian Maritime Safety Authority, which oversees the search, said the ship will be equipped with a black box detector - the U.S. Navy's Towed Pinger Locator - and an unmanned underwater vehicle, as well as other acoustic detection equipment.

Ships from China and Australia on Saturday scooped up items described only as "objects from the ocean," but none were "confirmed to be related" to Flight 370, AMSA said.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140330/DACRNJE00.html





A Royal New Zealand Air Force crew member looks into the southern Indian Ocean from a P-3K2 Orion aircraft searches for missing Malaysian Airlines flight 370, Saturday, March 29, 2014. A day after the search for the Malaysian jetliner shifted to a new area of the Indian Ocean, ships on Saturday plucked objects from the sea to determine whether they were related to the missing jet. None were confirmed to be from the plane, leaving searchers with no sign of the jet three weeks after it disappeared. (AP Photo/Jason Reed, Pool)
14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Black box detector to join Malaysian jet search (Original Post) Omaha Steve Mar 2014 OP
Why not have two black boxes on each plane? One to stay with the plane, the other to be ejected. . . Journeyman Mar 2014 #1
+1 tofuandbeer Mar 2014 #2
That's thinking outside of the box. JimDandy Mar 2014 #3
No- James48 Mar 2014 #5
Does a plane enter an airspace governed by a control tower when it prepares to land? . . . Journeyman Mar 2014 #8
answers- James48 Mar 2014 #10
Thanks for providing the rationale for how the control tower would govern ejection of the 2nd box... Journeyman Mar 2014 #11
they wouldn't. James48 Mar 2014 #12
Black Box detector ... mallard Mar 2014 #4
There is no such thing James48 Mar 2014 #6
Good thing you're up early to fix stuff. pangaia Mar 2014 #7
They have not known where to look treestar Mar 2014 #9
Ahhh just as I predicted..... onecent Mar 2014 #13
what is the O/U on calling off the search? quadrature Mar 2014 #14

Journeyman

(15,035 posts)
1. Why not have two black boxes on each plane? One to stay with the plane, the other to be ejected. . .
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 11:30 PM
Mar 2014

One black box would stay with the plane. The other would be prepped to be ejected should the plane descend below a set altitude and not be under the control of a control tower.

In other words, when the plane went below 1,000 feet, and a control tower did not deactivate the black box ejector, the black box would be dropped away from the plane.

It could be encased in a flotation device, settle gently to the ground with a parachute, and have a GPS transponder set to beam its location from the moment it's ejected. It would be easy to find, nearly impossible for someone on the plane to tamper with, and provide a ready signal and up-to-date information about the plane's condition direction, and possible location.

Oh, certainly, a determined individual could descend to 900 feet and be rid of the device, but in an emergency situation it would make locating the aircraft far easier.

James48

(4,436 posts)
5. No-
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 08:28 AM
Mar 2014

Aircraft are never "under the control of a control tower". They are always under the control of the pilot.

There is no requirement that they even talk to a control tower in many places.

Nice thought, but it is clear you have no knowledge of how aircraft fly and how they navigate.


A much simpler answer is for them to transmit periodically some basic parameters- location, altitude, direction, speed. That is easy to do with technology we have now.

Journeyman

(15,035 posts)
8. Does a plane enter an airspace governed by a control tower when it prepares to land? . . .
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 12:12 PM
Mar 2014

Or do the pilots just willy-nilly land wherever they please?

And after a commercial aircraft takes off, how often do they maintain cruising speed below 1,000 feet? Or does such a dip in altitude only reasonably take place while preparing to land?

Please enlighten me. I have no idea how planes fly.

James48

(4,436 posts)
10. answers-
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 01:27 PM
Mar 2014

Airspace is "controlled" only to the extent that in some (not all) areas around airports, the tower knows who is within the five mile radius inbound or outbound. The controller tells the pilot if he is clear to land, or if he must circle or steer to get in line. At the largest airports, the controller may direct the plane to get in line with other planes. But it is the pilot who is flyiing the plane, not the controler.

Cruising speed? They never do cruising speed at low altitude. The speed limit below 10,000 feet is 250 kts, with few exceptions.
Jets usually fly less than 200 knots when approaching an airport. Approach speed is typically from 120 to 160 knots for most Boeing jets. http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/faqs/arcandapproachspeeds.pdf

Cruising speed for jets is usually much higher, and is not reached until they are at a cruising altitude.

Low level flight is usually only for landing.

Journeyman

(15,035 posts)
11. Thanks for providing the rationale for how the control tower would govern ejection of the 2nd box...
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 01:31 PM
Mar 2014

James48

(4,436 posts)
12. they wouldn't.
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 02:38 PM
Mar 2014

If a plane crashes close enough to a control tower to see it, you don't need anything special to find the flight data and voice recorders.

you only need an ejectable flight recorder when the crash site is a thousand miles or more from land.
but then again, I said the answer previously- its not a flight recorder, but rather real time data being transmitted during flight. Even if it is simply a one-second burst of flight data every two or three minutes, you'd get most of the data you need to figure out where to look.

A simple one-second databurst report of Position, speed, direction, altitude, spit out every two or three minutes, and you could narrow the crash site down significantly.

James48

(4,436 posts)
6. There is no such thing
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 08:31 AM
Mar 2014

as a "black box detector"

Once again, reporters are writing things that don't exist.


All that is is an acoustic hydrophone (listening mic) that is towed. Yes, they have been listening with them since day one.

Many Navy ships are equipped with them to begin with, although not all.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
7. Good thing you're up early to fix stuff.
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 10:52 AM
Mar 2014
Saves me the trouble.

Do we dare tell them that there is NO BLACK BOX.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
9. They have not known where to look
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 12:20 PM
Mar 2014

Even now it doesn't look like they really know just where to look.

onecent

(6,096 posts)
13. Ahhh just as I predicted.....
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 02:44 PM
Mar 2014

They WILL JUST find the black box, IN THE NICK OF TIME....

Except the black box only lets them know what happened a couple of hours BEFORE crashing into the sea.
Good luck with finding out anything.

They've known where it is...this is all a diversion....I just wish I knew a diversion from what?

 

quadrature

(2,049 posts)
14. what is the O/U on calling off the search?
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 07:09 PM
Mar 2014

this is getting tiresome

I predict two more weeks of this uselessness.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Black box detector to joi...