We are having to take a second look at many commitments made to America. Why not expect more and do less for these bellicose recalcitrants.

If either Palestine or Israel prefers violence to peace, then they will both have violence.

The two sides to the dispute have to come to the point at which peace is worth more enough to compromise. Otherwise they and their children will have more and more violence until one side or the other "wins" whatever there is left to win.

Good luck, guys.

but it is never going to happen. They just don't care if the children have happiness as a way of life or any memory of what that might be.

And that side is still doing it (and you know which side is which).

At least we can be honest here.

Last edited Fri Apr 4, 2014, 06:30 PM - Edit history (2)

No I don't. Pray tell, enlighten us.

Do you mean when the arabs conquered Israel(+), after the Romans(*) drove nearly all the jews out of it in the diaspora, purposefully destroying their most sacred holy spot, and triumphantly building a mosque upon its ashes?

Or when the jews came back, bought up some land, and asked Britain to give them sovereignty over a small portion of Palestine (which was under British control), Britain then put the matter before the U.N., who voted for the idea, Jordan then attacked, trying to destroy them, lost, and the Israelis then kicked out arabs they thought had collaborated with Jordan, and were hostile to them, whether they were or not? (Or any of the subsequent wars to destroy Israel, and territorial losses sustained when they failed spectacularly, and the subsequent rise of "settlers" who think it is their holy duty to drive non-jews out of israel.)

The reason why the Middle East is such a mess is exactly because it is filled with people like you. You imagine there is a perfect good guy and a perfect bad guy in a millennia old conflict.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community


(*) Somehow got edited out of my original text, as I rearranged sentences. My bad.

(+) Let me be even more technically correct here. I'm talking about the conquest of Jerusalem in 637 which is the territory of present day Israel, not that Israel as a state existed in that timeframe.

It was the ROMANS. The mosque was built hundreds of years later.

When the Jews returned in the early 1900s, much of the land was farmed by Palestinian tenants who had villages where they had lived for generations. In the earliest days, they coexisted. However, in 1949, there were towns where hundreds of Arabs were killed and all of the survivors exiled. Even Israeli sources have written about this including the recent book by Ari Savit.

As a Jew, I think that in Israel/Palestine, both sides have grievances, but in the last century, it is the Palestinians who are the victims.

Likely as I was rearranging sentences. I updated it, once I reread it. Thank you for that correction.

I also acknowledged in the original that during the first war, there were Arabs who were accused of collaborating, whether they were or not. And also that the Israeli Settlers have some rather unfortunate intentions.

However, my overall point remains. All those who lay the entirety of the blame on one side or the other aren't fixing the problem. They are the problem.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

You left out the Ottoman Empire's control of the area and their loss in WWI which resulted in the British Protectorate in the area. You also forgot, and most supporters of Palestine forget that it was not just Israel that was carved out of the area but also Jordan. Jordan was considered part of the Arab Palestine. Israel was but a tiny portion of the British Protectorate.

The story of the events and legal ownership of the area following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_%28legal_instrument%29

It explains why the country was a British Protectorate and why the victors of WWI could do with it what they wanted.

When your country is defeated, those who defeat you own your country and can do with it what they want. WWI changed the map of Europe and the Middle East. One reason for a country to avoid war and to compromise to have peace is to avoid a terrible loss of land and sovereignty.

Austria was the Holy Roman Empire. It was blamed for WWI, and after the war it lost all kinds of territory in Europe. That's just how these things work.

That is why the fools in Palestine and Israel should make peace. Which of them is ready to fight a war and perhaps be obliterated entirely?

No you're not. That's some obvious propaganda. Your history is totally wrong.

1967, to be exact, when Israel took land from the Palestinians and has since refused to give it back.

1967.

Say it with me "1967."

sides will have to decide what they can give up and what they should maintain. It's up to them. Outsiders cannot decide for them.

How about the court system? Works here.

So I think you can say they tried that.

... beyond pointless. If while you are "talking" you are trying to push a shiv into someone's belly, the "talking" is nothing more than a distraction.

… because Bibi and Abbas have something to gain by keeping it going.

Give up. Cut off aid for both countries. Let them figure it out but no US dollars go to them till they do.

That is, no more aid to either side of any kind whatsoever and get all the military hardware given to Israel back. Let them duke it out.

MIC, AIPAC & Fundamentalists are too rich and have too many congresscritters in their back pockets to even have this ever come to a vote. The US is not an honest broker, we need to stop pretending to the world that we are impartial.

The government of Israel have embarrassed and humiliated the President and the United States at EVERY opportunity.

Israel demanding the US release traitor Pollard as a condition of the peace talks was likely too much.

Facts

The United States has never provided more economic AID than under the administration of President Obama.

The United States has never provided more military aid and support then under the administration of President Obama. Under President Obama the United States pledges to ensure Israel's Qualitative Military Edge

The United States has never provided more intelligence to Israel, under the administration of President Obama, Israel has been provided with RAW unfiltered NSA DATA intercepts.

No one has been a better friend of Israel then the Administration of President Obama.

The right wing government of Israel, has repaid the United States and President Obama with endless humiliation and embarrassment.

Unprecedented open support for Mitt Romney and the Republican Party, repeated calls for traitor Pollard to be released, announcing settlements when the Vice President arrives for Peace talks, lecturing the United States and the Obama Administration as naive dupes of Iran, cozying up to china promising them military technology developed in the United States, attempting to undermine the President with congressional resolutions and many more slights. The chutzpa of the right wing government of Israel is off the charts.

With friends like these...