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muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 05:27 AM Apr 2014

World must end 'dirty' fuel use - UN

Source: BBC

A long-awaited UN report on how to curb climate change says the world must rapidly move away from carbon-intensive fuels.

There must be a "massive shift" to renewable energy, says the 33-page study released in Berlin.
...
"Emissions from energy supply can be reduced significantly by replacing current world average coal-fired power plants with modern, highly efficient natural gas combined-cycle power plants," says the summary.

The report describes natural gas as a "bridge" technology with deployment increasing before peaking and falling below current levels by 2050.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27008352

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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World must end 'dirty' fuel use - UN (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 OP
Stating the obvious - let's hope people listen Chemisse Apr 2014 #1
It won't make any difference Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #2
That's the spirit! n/t leeroysphitz Apr 2014 #3
Massive shift could very easily happen Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #4
China is converting to renewables daleo Apr 2014 #5
Did the article take capacity factors into account? GliderGuider Apr 2014 #6
They did say generating capacity daleo Apr 2014 #7
Whenever journos use the word "capacity" they mean "nameplate capacity" GliderGuider Apr 2014 #8
I've seen that term, but need a definition. Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #9
Definition from Wikipedia: GliderGuider Apr 2014 #10
Thanks. Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #11
Nevertheless, China is investing big in renewables daleo Apr 2014 #12
China is investing in ALL energy sources, clean or dirty NickB79 Apr 2014 #17
Energy Department seeks methane hydrate proposals Bosonic Apr 2014 #13
Methane hydrate extraction is potentially worse than even tar sands NickB79 Apr 2014 #15
Kick! Cha Apr 2014 #14
There are 1,000 coal-fired plants currently under construction globally NickB79 Apr 2014 #16

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
2. It won't make any difference
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 06:58 AM
Apr 2014

I wish it would but it won't. The US is either the biggest polluter or second biggest. 23% of your population denies the reality of climate change (including at least one poster on this board) and, let's be honest, they're generally Republican. So one party is already predisposed to think global warming is a hoax those godless scientists created to distract us from creeping Maoism. And now, you add in that your campaign financing system is now just outright bribery and that the polluting industries have a lot of money to throw around. And the two combined means that nothing will get done.

Our best bet is to push for NASA funding so we can get the hell off this rock before the polar bears actually combust.

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
4. Massive shift could very easily happen
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 12:11 PM
Apr 2014

Based on the trends I stumbled across and posted on this thread here - http://www.democraticunderground.com/112767760 - I did a very stupid & simple projection for US usage of renewables in electricity, which that report correctly focuses on. If solar continues at an 80% increase per year - the last two years were both +100% - and wind continues at the low end of its range, which is +20% per year, you get the following result:

- By 2021 renewables are 50% of the energy mix for electricity.
- Solar overtakes wind by 2021.
- By 2023, no more fossil fuels.

Remember, the US up until now has been lagging. Whereas renewables make up 23% of the global electrical production energy mix, they only make up 13% of the US's.
Obviously this isn't really going to happen, as adoption will slow from the above rates as the numbers get larger. But the point is, given that both wind and solar seem to have crossed some sort of threshold for adoption in the US, wind back in 2008, solar in 2011, getting to where we need to be by 2050 isn't nearly as impossible as it now seems, as the EU is way ahead of the US on this. China and India need to get on board, but China is already profiting from the changeover, as they make something like 80% of the solar panels now being installed worldwide. I don't think persuading them is going to be that hard, if it's needed at all. India might be harder.

daleo

(21,317 posts)
5. China is converting to renewables
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 01:44 PM
Apr 2014

I recently read a feature in the Globe and Mail ( a very status quo, somewhat conservative Canadian newspaper) that noted China added more electrical capacity last year from wind/solar than from coal.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
6. Did the article take capacity factors into account?
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 01:48 PM
Apr 2014

When you consider that the capacity factor of wind and solar are typically ~25% while the capacity factor of a coal plant is 85%+, the picture changes dramatically.

daleo

(21,317 posts)
7. They did say generating capacity
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 02:49 PM
Apr 2014

But I am not sure if they were talking average base load or peak capacity. I grant those are different, but they were talking in terms of a large country, so they could have meant average load, since the wind will tend to equalize over a sufficiently large area.

China has very serious pollution problems, a relatively small fossil fuel capacity compared to demand, and a political will to avoid relying on others for crucial strategic commodities. Given those factors, they are more committed to renewables than most people think. Their motives for moving away from fossil fuel are basically self interest, so they can probably be trusted to carry on in this fashion. Same goes for Germany.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
8. Whenever journos use the word "capacity" they mean "nameplate capacity"
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 02:54 PM
Apr 2014

Which is the 25% or so I mentioned.

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
9. I've seen that term, but need a definition.
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 04:21 PM
Apr 2014

Is that max capacity if everything is running properly on the device?

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
10. Definition from Wikipedia:
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 04:33 PM
Apr 2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nameplate_capacity

For dispatchable power, this capacity depends on the internal technical capability of the plant to maintain output for a reasonable amount of time (for example, a day), neither momentarily nor permanently, and without considering external events such as lack of fuel or internal events such as maintenance.[9] Actual output can be different from nameplate capacity for a number of reasons depending on equipment and circumstances.

For non-dispatchable power, particularly renewable energy, nameplate capacity refers to generation under ideal conditions. Output is generally limited by weather conditions, hydroelectric dam water levels, tidal variations and other outside forces. Equipment failures and maintenance usually contribute less to capacity factor reduction than the innate variation of the power source.

daleo

(21,317 posts)
12. Nevertheless, China is investing big in renewables
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 05:32 PM
Apr 2014

Though fossil fuels are reliable on a day to day basis in a plant, over mid range time periods they are subject to huge variations in price, availability, and political/military/environmental costs. Smart countries are adjusting accordingly.

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
17. China is investing in ALL energy sources, clean or dirty
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 10:32 PM
Apr 2014

Their investments into renewables are being dwarfed by their new coal "mega-bases": http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/theres-a-coal-base-in-china-the-size-of-la

But China isn't just relegating its dirty coal-fired power plants to the outskirts of society; for years, it's been building 16 unprecedentedly massive, brand new "coal bases" in rural parts of the country. There, they won't stifle China's megacities; they'll churn out enough pollution to help smother the entire world.

The biggest of those bases, the Ningdong Energy and Chemical Industry Base, spans nearly 400 square miles, about the size of LA. It's already operational, and seemingly always expanding. It's operated by Shenhua, one of the biggest coal companies in the world. China hopes to uses these coal bases not just to host some of the world's largest coal-fired power plants, but to use super-energy intensive technology to convert the coal into a fuel called syngas and use it to make plastics and other materials.

Syngas is healthier to breathe when burned than typical coal—but as Motherboard has noted before, synthesizing the stuff emits nearly twice the carbon pollution. That's why when Inside Climate News, the Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative environmental outfit, traveled to China to investigate the operation, they, and a number of climate experts concluded it would "doom the climate."


Can you feel the sense of urgency?

Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
13. Energy Department seeks methane hydrate proposals
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 06:08 PM
Apr 2014
Energy Department seeks methane hydrate proposals

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) — The U.S. Department of Energy is soliciting for another round of research into methane hydrates, the potentially huge energy source of "frozen gas" that could step in for shortages of other fossil fuels.

The department is looking for research projects on the North Slope of Alaska that could explore how to economically extract the gas locked in ice far below the Earth's surface.

DOE is also seeking researchers to document methane hydrate deposits in outer continental shelf waters of coastal states.

The DOE anticipates federal funding of $20 million over two years that could be leveraged into research costing $80 million, according to its "funding opportunity announcement." The department could award money for both methane hydrate extraction research and for documentation or just one of those two research areas, according to the announcement.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/energy-department-seeks-methane-hydrate-proposals

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
15. Methane hydrate extraction is potentially worse than even tar sands
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 10:26 PM
Apr 2014

I'd rather see another BP-size oil blowout than a hydrate deposit destabilization event.

Methane is 25X as strong a greenhouse gas as CO2, and a massive methane burp would make controlling climate change effectively impossible.

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
16. There are 1,000 coal-fired plants currently under construction globally
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 10:28 PM
Apr 2014
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/apr/11/un-greenhouse-gas-emissions-doubled-decade-ipcc-report

Coal plants are the most polluting of all power stations, and there are more than 1,000 new plants under construction worldwide.


So yeah, the world has already decided to say "Fuck off, there's money to be made" to the IPCC and the UN reports.
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