mice models of depression are not that useful, IMO. In fact, there are more and more doubts about the efficacy of pharmacological treatments of most types of depression in humans.

Anti-Depressants work. While they definitely don't just make you better, they allow you to figure out how to get better without the constant ongoing spirals of rage and sadness. I have taken them for years and I am a different, better person because of it. Everyone around me says so.

That said, I have issue with the idea that the way to fix depressed PEOPLE is to make them more depressed or even give them drugs that amplify their existing depression. It may fix some people, but I think there will be a lot of suicide along the way.

One has to remember that when drugs are approved they only have to be effective in 50% of the population. That means in the other 50% they can be ineffective or actually work quite differently then expected. There would have to be very tight controls during clinical testing.

I have to say I really believe that if they can figure out which chemical in "magic" mushrooms is responsible for easing depression then that drug will be a true treatment for the condition. It is a matter of whether or not the long lasting feeling of well being that accompanies their use is purely chemical or a consequence of the "trippy" part of their use.

About that and other psychedelics. Especially since, when I first started taking the anti-depressants, for the first couple weeks some of the peripheral effects were a lot like those of a hallucinogen. Nothing fun, I got a weird taste in my mouth similar to LSD and the same kind of knot in the pit of my stomach accompanied by mild nausea.

Its probably something to do with serotonin levels, but its always made me wonder if they couldn't piece-meal the beneficial parts of what those drugs do out to help with brain disorders. However, it seems to me this is a pursuit the pharmacology industry is probably all over

what you're talking about is also the start of what is known as seratonin syndrome - which can kill you, but usually goes away if you reduce dosage - or if your body acclimates to the increase without the development of additional symptoms.

Here's what the Mayo says about seratonin syndrome:

And many of those happen as you withdraw from it as well, which makes sense based on everything I have read as well.

We monkeyed with dosage when I first started to adapt me to it and now i only have those symptoms if I miss my pill for more than a day. Which is kinda scary actually, 'cause it makes me feel like I am on the edge of just dropping suddenly into unconsciousness at any time combined with weird pulse like headaches, twitches, and a number of other things on that list.

Scary at times, ya, but not having the uncontrollable angry/sad fits I used to get is totally worth it.

From the article in the OP:

and TOTALLY agree Seems like common sense

is whether antidepressants "work" because of placebo vs the chemicals they are composed of. And if they are no better than placebo, then there are other ways of treating depression with fewer side effects.
In any case, I've had long discussions with Kirsch on this. Read some of the relevant literature, if you are interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Kirsch

What they do is not a placebo effect. There are side effects, and serious problems if I skip a few days. Perfect, no. Effective, for what I need yes. And definitely not a placebo.

And the evidence to date does not look good at all, other than for a rather small percentage of major depression cases. Placebo effects are real, but they are not caused by the specific active factors in the anti-depressant. In fact, side effects often enhance the placebo effect, because the person believes he/she got some powerful chemical in their body. I'm not debating that whatever you take works for you. I'm just saying that you cannot assure me about the mechanism of action implicated, without a proper clinical trial. Many of these have been conducted, and the verdict is that placebo is not better than the actual anti-depressant in most cases (anti-depressants just have worse side-effects).

When you say things like this to a depressed person all WE hear is "Its all in your head, just get better" and that idea is toxic.

I really hate it when people go on about how the anti depressant affect could just be placebo. It helps foster stigma and belittles those who need them for help.

But that is because there is a misunderstanding about what "placebo" means. Placebo works in many domains, and it does not mean at all that the illness is "imaginary" or any less real.
It's a serious scientific and practical issue. If a clinical trial shows that anti-depressant X does no better than placebo (plus it has side effects like weight gain and sleep disturbances), then it is important for society to know about it because a lot of money and resources are wasted on anti-depressant X and there may be better, cheaper, treatment options.

Any given antibiotic works on one group of bacteria but not on another group. Say you take a random group of people with infections. Some have bacteria in group A and respond to the antibiotic. Some have bacteria from group B and don't respond. Is the antibiotic effective or not?

Now, any given anti-depressant seems to work for some people but not for others. The typical history is that someone tries two or three drugs or combinations of drugs to find something that works.

So, an anti-depressant is tested. It works wonders for people in Group A, is so-so for people in Group B, and does nothing for people in Group C. Does the anti-depressant work or not? People from Group A will swear by it. People from Group B ad C might say it's no better than the placebo.

Until we know enough to tease out the different causes of depression, I suspect it will be hard to test anti-depressants using the standard placebo model. What might be a good test is to take the people from Group A (who say they have responded well to the drug) , give half of them a placebo, and the other half the drug and see what happens.

If you have a chance, browse some of the clinical trial review evidence Irving Kirsch has compiled on these issues.

More hopeful research!

an aside: a bit like Nanny Ogg I can spell bananananas but sometimes forget when to stop

And logical...

kicked

Even a mouse.