I hope his granddad pulls his ear.

It's much simpler than having "I'm a bigoted dumbass" tattooed on their forehead although it pretty much sends the same message.

Makes it that much easier to identify the morans.

Free speech is the best way to expose stupidity.

cultural past I agree with that but it is an ugly cultural past and aught not be celebrated. It he wants to honor civil rights leaders, don't wave the confederate flag!

In this case “This car is owned by an asshole”

Take the issue off the table now. There are such immensely more important issues than a flag.

We actually have a shot down here. No need to get bogged down on this issue

Don't let them use this as a distraction from issues they can't whip a fringe of bigoted hate mongers into a frenzy over. diffuse this one matter as quickly as possible and move on the the bigger fish.

wanting to some day. Banning the plates now wouldn't do that, probably exactly the opposite.

like education, public safety, health care, and other meaningful topics, because this is The Most (not) Important Thing that the voters can (waste) spend their time discussing!!!! It's really going to make people want to vote for the person who tells them what they can or can't put on their own vehicle, after paying for it!

Yay, authoritarians! Eliminate Racist Attitudes By Decree!

Massive for the irony-impaired.

You might be able to stop them from wanting to someday. Banning the plates now wouldn't do that, probably exactly the opposite.

I mean he can have an opinion, but aren't these issues usually decide by the courts?

Licence plates come under the Executive branch.

when they don't like the ruling, no?

But courts, in general, do not like to mirco-manage the Executive branch. Especially something like license plate symbols.

the taxman, in essence, seconded down to the DMV, and they have a shitload of different plates, colleges, government, military, special interest, vanity plates, etc. They call them "Prestige Plates" and they get a nice surcharge off of them.

What's not clear to me yet is how the plate gets on the market in the first place. In some states, the "citizenry" ask for the plate, and if there's a collective will for the thing, then it gets approved (by the legislature in some situations). I'm not clear about the approval process in GA, but I'll keep looking. Everything I've seen says that "Georgia officials" approve the tags, but they aren't clear which officials. Some say DOR, others say DMV.

From NPR--good discussion at the link, too:

and the label of Fight Injustice.

Compare the numbers in a couple years and see which were more popular.


ON EDIT: Or, put the label on the bottom of the plate that reads "second place 1860-65"

funny stuff

I don't know, or care, much about Georgia.

Left unspoken is the unstated understanding that people have the "right" to display images that leave those who observe said images with no doubt as to the intelligence of those people proudly engaging in the display.

When I see someone with a Confederate flag sticker on their car, my first thought is "Mouth breathing moron." I'm not alone, I suspect.

I think it's sweet of them, that they identify themselves so readily, so we can give the idiots a wide berth.

They're state issued license plates.

If the state is going to issue Confederate flag plates, they might as well go all out and do it like some of the credit card companies do where whatever picture you print out and bring in is printed on your plate.

I pay extra -- and I can't really afford it -- for a plate that touts the joys of Cape Cod, in order to help preserve the National Seashore. It's way more expensive than a "regular" plate. My car is so old that the plate is worth more than the vehicle.

I could get a military related one at a bargain price, but I'd rather go for the other one, it's an environmental thing with me.

If enough people get together and ask the gub-mint to print a plate, and they're willing to fill the coffers to pay for it, and then some, then why not?

The attitude --and in the case of that dumbass "historical" flag--is transmitted from the plate to the vehicle owner. It's a lot like those giant "L" cards in Great Britain, or those Yellow/Green stickers in Japan, that warned people to STEER CLEAR because the person was a learner/new driver.

In this case, you see that flag, and it tells you there's an IDIOT behind the wheel. Fair enough!

How about a state issued plate with a burning cross?

You think you are being clever, but you're not coming across that way at all.

You can "like" that hideous "battle flag," or not, but it has a place in history as an official banner that was used by soldiers of "the south." It was part of southern flags of more than one state.

Odious or not, it has an official and acknowleged place in history.

***Is it in poor taste? Absolutely.

***Could it be construed as racist? Hell to the yes.

***Do people who display it demonstrate stupidity in abundance? Absolutely.

***Is stupidity against the law? Why NO, it's not.

No one is stopping anyone from putting a battle flag sticker on their car. We're talking about a plate that is manufactured and sold by the government. You're the one being obtuse if you think not allowing this plate is "censoring speech" (which quite frankly is an idiotic statement, but I think you probably know that).


You seem to really be in love with the battle flag though. It's an interesting Waterloo for someone to choose. Next you'll be telling me that we should allow plates with swastikas, after all they might make the state a few bucks, and if they don't they're censoring free speech......

I am not "in love" with the battle flag either--personally, I find it odious.

If you didn't have trouble reading, you'd have figured that out by these things called words and sentences that I have contributed to this discussion.

As for swastikas (hello, Godwin, and how are YOU today?), here's what you need to do--get a group of people together who want that on their license plate, petition your state legislature for the addition of the plate to the motor vehicles' "repertoire," and then see if the legislature goes along with your scheme.

When you've done that--get cracking now, you've a point to prove!--you come back here and tell us all how terrible it all is, now why don't you?

...to express their constitutionally-protected speech (in this case, the Confederate flag), it still very much annoys me that it is still perfectly OK to offend Black people in this nation. As a southerner, I see it every time I get in my car and drive it and it always feels like someone is giving me the middle finger when I see it. This person is telling me, with just their flag, that they'd rather see me in chains than to have a drink with me. You won't see these Confederate-loving folk driving around with a Nazi flag on their pickup because it's not fashionable to let your hate of Jewish people out of the closet - hating Black folk might make you some friends in the trailer park though.

They label themselves, so we can see them coming at fifty paces or more.

It would actually probably be a more pleasant world if people routinely announced "Hey, I'm a stupid racist asshole!" by sign or symbol before people engaged them.

They'd make it easier to avoid them.

It's an absurd--and rather melodramatic--question you are asking.

It's someone's heritage!

bring that information here and we can all exhibit the appropriate outrage.

The fact there isn't doesn't diminish how insulting it can be to proudly show off a racist heritage.

Frankly, I am over specialized license plates.

The flag flap is a right wing divide and conquer device. Don't take the bait. We aren't talking about displaying the thing on the roof of the statehouse or in a courthouse, we're talking about it adorning the license plates of individual cars of individual idiots. A group objecting to it could just as easily develop critical mass and petition for their own "new south" anti-stars/bars flag, like this one:



Should time be spent crabbing about something that has been legislated and passed and only a few people, idiots all, will avail themselves of, or should limited time be spent articulating serious differences re: social issues like health care, education, housing--you know, stuff that matters that people will be voting on when they choose their next political leader?

I don't live in GA, but I suspect even people who think that frigging flag is a dumbass piece of racist snotrag also think that this isn't going to be a "winner" issue to take on. Smart people choose their battles, and this is just a dumb battle.

The hardest speech to tolerate is the odious speech, but the mark of someone who really gets the concept of free speech is to allow those dumb assholes the freedom to express themselves like the damned fools that they are. AND make them pay twice as much as an ordinary plate for the privilege of looking like a moron when they drive down the road...

As I have said elsewhere, specialized plates are a way for states to raise cash for infrastructure and other projects without raising taxes...and as we all know, taxes go up first on the poor. A nickel here, a dime there, a dollar here, two there...pretty soon it adds up to a lotta scratch.

It's racist. Supporting it only enables racists. The Nazi flag won't happen for good reason. This shouldn't be allowed, either. It's just as bad as having this on a plate:



No defending it. No excusing it. It's bigoted, hateful and backwards - just like the people who want to put 'em on their car. It's all about racial pride masked in 'heritage'.

racist, as well.

That said, I don't agree with censoring them.

And again, if you think the pointy-hatted symbol you've posted (please show me where that appeared on any "governmental" state or federal flag, won't you?) would pass the muster of even a bunch of good old boys down at the Gee-Awww-Ja DOR or the DMV, you've got another think coming, I suspect. That organization whose symbol you've slapped up here on this progressive website has a history of lynching people. The "Sons of the Confederacy" insist that their purpose and point of view are all about genealogy, history and heritage. You may not believe that and you may not agree with any sort of commemoration of their history or heritage, but they aren't advocating hanging anyone or preventing people from marrying based on race or religion, or discriminating against people because of those things.

These "Sons of the Confederacy" have "cover." They have a critical mass of membership as well. They use the plate proceeds to maintain and repair state monuments, and relieve the state of a burden.

Do you oppose the missions and goals of the ACLU? The arguments you are making would make me believe that is the case. Frankly, I find the ACLU infuriating at times, but I understand why they do what they do.

I don't have a "right" to live in a world where I'm never "offended," and neither do you. I do have a right to live in a country where my skin color or gender or orientation or religion/lack of same or other distinguishing characteristic doesn't subject me to discrimination or violence. The ACLU spends most of their effort and energy walking that fine line, ensuring that people have a right to express even odious opinions, while legally delivering a beatdown to anyone who takes their differences beyond words into violence or discrimination, on my behalf, and yours.

I do not deny that the image of the stars and bars flag invokes a visceral, unpleasant reaction in me. That might be due to age and experience and sensitivity, but at the end of the day, my discomfort isn't the issue, here.

So again, NO to censorship. As I said elsewhere, the DOR/DMV "deciders" -- or the legislature if someone gets offended and tries to pass a law outlawing this plate or that, or even the courts if an offended person wants to take it that way--are going to make the call about what is acceptable in their state and what is not, should anyone complain, seek legislative relief, or try to sue. I suspect they will not prevail, though, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the ACLU sprung to their defense as well.

The culture of Georgia has already supported this image on a license plate for some time, now--this is not a new CONCEPT, it is just a newer design and the image is also seen (lighter and larger) as "background" to the plate numbers as well as in bold colors on the side of the plate.

If some members of the African American community continue to expropriate the image (and why not? If idiots like Justin Beiber can try to 'teef' from black culture, it's more than fair), or embrace the "history" argument, who knows? Maybe the racists who love the image now may eventually fall out of love with it. That would fix their little "painted like the General Lee" red wagon...

Excellent logic, brilliant really.

your "logic."

Now that's 'brilliant' really. Only problem is, that isn't how we handle those dangerous things known as "ideas" and "opinions" in USA. That kind of system you propose works a treat in Russia or China, though.

Unpopular idea? Shut 'em down and shut 'em up!

Ever hear the expression "The solution to speech is more speech?" You might try exploring that concept sometime...you and your little roly poly laughing man, there.

Symbols are symbols. Free speech is free speech... until we dismiss it by calling it "absurd" and "melodramatic"

Let me break it down in plain fashion:

--There is a procedure that must be followed before any "symbol" makes it from an idea in someone's head to a license plate.

--It's not a casual process; it takes effort.

--That procedure includes a critical mass of consumers (as opposed to a few Godwinning cranks) expressing a desire for the product, and a willingness to pay for it (because the idea is to raise revenue), and the approval of the state.

--Thus, the suggestions that nooses and burning crosses and swastikas are going to suddenly appear on license plates and we'll all be "horrified" IS both melodramatic and absurd.

Like it or not, the stars and bars flag is a common symbol in southern states--so common that it has engendered a response to it, the "New South" symbol that I've posted elsewhere in this thread, that incorporates typical African flag colors into the motif.

To make it clear, because "some people" in this discussion like to snidely insinuate that I'm some kind of racist for not tearing my hair out over this bullshit, I think the symbol is rife with racism and I think people who display it are fucking idiots (does EVERYONE get that, now? Anyone still confused?). However, as is demonstrated all too often, even the internet is not immune, there is no law against being a fucking idiot in USA. We find them in the general population, and in legislatures as well. The day we have "popular support" in the populations of states and legislatures for swastikas on license plates, we've got bigger problems than what kind of tags people are sporting on their vehicles.

Some truths are self-evident...I should think that's one of 'em.

but if this is a measure of his willingness to compromise on core values then he loses my support. He voted for this guns anywhere and everywhere and the police cannot even ask to see a carry permit. Now he is agreeing to the propagation of a symbol of tyranny and slavery.

I sent him $50.00 but I think that is the last of it.

His stance is a winner there.

There are these two things; free speech and the 2nd. It is not Carter's job to fight those two things.

Put your money where your beliefs lie, to the extent you can manage.

In Georgia this is just smart politics. Governor Barnes got rid of the stars n bars from the state flag in 2001. He was also the last Democratic Governor we elected. It was the right thing to do, but boy have we suffered for it.

I'll put up with the pandering to get the crook out of the Governor's mansion.

But he knew it was a bad move for business and didnt try

If people feel the need to make a statement, they can buy a fucking bumper sticker.

CA and VA are brilliant at the whole "vanity" franchise.

People get to be creative with their plate, they pay for the privilege, and the state gets money for it. That money goes to paving and lighting roads and fixing bridges. People who are poor are not overburdened with toll hikes and income tax increases.

Who the hell wants a plain-ass plate when they can get something a little colorful and fun? Why must everything be drab? It never worked for Lenin, Stalin or Mao, and it doesn't raise money for state infrastructure improvement.

If you want a plain plate, no one is stopping you from getting one--knock yourself out.

And it has raised a good bit of money since inception.

I'm not a real fan of the "Choose Life" ones, either, never mind the stupid battle flag.

The thing is, though, these plates have to pass "muster" before they will get printed. There needs to be a demand for them before the state will go to the expense, AND the plate also needs to be approved as appropriate, which is why people saying that next thing up will be swastikas and worse is just a non-starter.

is why we lose elections.

Rightwing to distract from the real issues at hand. Just like the silly flag pin issue was some years ago.

President Carter has written extensively on the Civil War.

suck. I love Jimmy Carter now, but when he ran for Governor, he was very conservative. Of course, one had to be to win in a state full of bigots and yahoos. Not so sure it's necessary nowadays to get elected, or whether it's worth playing into conservatives' beliefs just to get elected. I need to see a bit more of J Carter before I get excited. I like what I see of Michelle Nunn so far.

Sometimes they are hard to spot.

So if they want to use their license plate to let us all know, I'm fine with it.

I guess there's the free speech argument to be made, but still

...the state will have no choice but to fill this vital need.

Gawd, I hate this Confederate flag shit. I do not, and never will, understand why people think it is a symbol of glory and honor. I can easily imagine how black people feel about it ... I find it symbolic of disgrace, abomination, and evil.

But the reality on the ground is that making the license plate thing and issue down here is probably political suicide. I don't believe for a second that Jason Carter is bigoted, or would purchase that license plate. But he knows he's fighting an up hill battle against one of the most corrupt and vicious cadres within the Republican Party.

We have a chance down here to get a Democratic Senator and a Governor elected and strike a major blow to the repressive and corrupt elements that have been running this state for a long time. In order to do that, we have to focus on the debates we can actually win. And there are several. We really have a chance down here. And if we succeed subsequent party building will really accelerate, and victories that are now unattainable will come within our reach.

And yet ... let's face it. This is another example of racist expression at an institutional level. I completely understand the reactions folk are having to this news. It sucks. And it sucks harder that we're not strong enough down here to really do something about it. Not yet. But that, too, is changing. Maybe not this year, but soon, the tide will shift down here. You can feel it happening.

Trav

and have never once seen a Confederate battle flag license plate. Though, many years ago, I did work during weekends at a flea market in Acworth and the owner of the booth sold a lot of Confederate flags. But I have not seen any displayed where I live in Woodstock.

You can make a pretty good case for the south having the highest rate of desertion of any modern army. You can't really blame them though. At the start when they marched off to war, they didn't plan on getting into a prolonged fight. Many thought they could just get back home by the next spring for planting and did so. Toward the end, the were marching those guys around with no food or shoes, hoping they would be resupplied at the next town. They should have already sent half of them home by then.

How many families celebrate their ancestors service in the Civil War not realizing he deserted? More than you would think I bet.