IRS paid 1,100 of its employees bonuses although they owed back taxes
Last edited Wed Apr 23, 2014, 03:10 PM - Edit history (1)
Source: Los Angeles Times
WASHINGTON --Failure to pay taxes usually is bad news for most Americans, but apparently not for some employees of the Internal Revenue Service -they received performance bonuses from the agency despite failing to submit what they owed.
The IRS paid a total of about $1.1 million in bonuses over approximately a two-year period to more than 1,100 employees who had been disciplined for "substantiated federal tax compliance problems," according to an inspector general's report.
Those employees also received awards of more than 10,000 hours of extra time off and 69 faster-than-normal pay grade increases. They were among more than 2,800 IRS employees during that period who got performance awards within one year of disciplinary action, such as suspensions or written reprimands, the report found.
The performance awards did not violate the law, said J. Russell George, the Treasury inspector general for tax administration.
Read more: http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-irs-taxes-bonuses-20140423,0,876215.story
Fixed link
ebbie15644
(1,216 posts)I worked for local and state government and never even got a Christmas certificate as a gift let alone a bonus.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Psephos
(8,032 posts)Besides the banksters?
Not many.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)I am getting them.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)So, no they are not competing. That is BS.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)I am a tax CPA. People I graduated with went to work there. The company I work for is part of their CAP program and I work daily with an IRS agent who just left a CPA firm to work for the IRS. But thanks for talking out of your ass.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)I have been audited two times in the last three years. First audit they said I owed $8000 in back taxes and penalties. Last year they said I owed $3000 in back taxes in penalties. Both cases arose over stock sales. In both cases the IRS employee I was dealing with thought you got stock for free. So when you sold it, all was profit. I had to explain that you had to buy stock and you subtract that price from your sales price.
After the first audit I got a check from the IRS for $187 because originally I hadn't bothered to take a credit. The second audit ended a couple weeks ago when they sent me a notice saying my tax bill was $0.
But you think these people could get jobs in the private sector. Well maybe working for you but nowhere else.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)I work for a Fortune 500 company that is under continuous audit with the IRS. For the first few years, we were under a post file examination. We were then admitted to the Compliance Assurance Process (CAP) program, which is where we have been for the last 4 years. The IRS has a permanent office in our building with anywhere from 1-12 people on site every day.
That said, your example explains EXACTLY why the IRS is beginning to offer bonuses. When they are not competitive, they end up with morons like you dealt with.
But go ahead and try to insult the multi billion dollar company I work for and pretend like your stock sales of five figures gets the attention of the Service's best and brightest.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)The rest of us scum just have to put up with the "morons" as you called them. Yeah, I know where you are coming from.
hack89
(39,171 posts)they need the best auditors to get that money. Given the amounts the corporations are stealing from us, I would rather the best IRS employees focus on the corporations.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)They are only qualified to work for the IRS and my company? I know where you are coming from as well.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)Apparently in your world they are "the best and the brightest" or they are a "moron".
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Please go back and re-read what you wrote and tell me what adjective best describes what you posted.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)I leave that to you.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)That way, you can make the same terrible claim, but can feign ignorance when called on it.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)I gave the facts of my experience. You then made the characterization.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)former9thward
(32,066 posts)I never said "they were qualified to work nowhere else."
wickerwoman
(5,662 posts)"People at the IRS could not get similar jobs in the private sector." Post 24
"But you think these people could get jobs in the private sector. Well maybe working for you but nowhere else." Post 33.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)I said similar jobs. You said any jobs. A big difference.
wickerwoman
(5,662 posts)you could just gracefully admit that in anger you posted something factually incorrect and have been called on it by a number of posters.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)Don't know who the "number of posters" are. I posted my factual experience. The IRS employees I have interacted with should not be working anywhere in that type of job. That is a fact.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Many others here have noticed it too. You make convince yourself that you have talked your way out it, but no one else is convinced.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)"Many others here have noticed it too." I guess you have appointed yourself to speak for the "many". You are someone who thinks people who work for the government can do no wrong. So you just put your head in the sand.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Show me where I said government workers can do no wrong. I simply said the IRS is competing with accounting firms for top talent. YOU then said that based on two experiences with a couple agents that none of the 100,000+ agents are qualified to work in a tax/accounting job outside of the service.
What is laughable is I manage the real time audit for a billion dollar company and YOU claim to have more in depth experiences with the IRS.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)I never said "I have more in depth experiences with the IRS". I said what my experiences were. Whatever you say that's what you say. As with me. This being an anonymous board we can say anything. Maybe it is true, maybe is it total BS. All I can give is my general opinion -- which counts as much as yours, Fortune 500 and all. Maybe you are working out of a garage. Maybe I have never paid taxes in my life. No one can know. Unless we both go over performance reviews and backgrounds of 100,000 people we have to give generalized opinions.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)No rational person thinks none of 100,000+ employees is qualified to work in an accounting/tax job outside of the service.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)former9thward
(32,066 posts)Maybe they should do some training before they all leave.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)former9thward
(32,066 posts)I hope you have a good attorney no matter what he/she did in the past.
wickerwoman
(5,662 posts)Your experience with one of them doesn't speak to the professional competence of everyone in the entire organisation.
Most IRS agents have degrees in accounting and could use them to compete on the open market if they chose.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)They work for the Service for a few years to get experience and then dart for better money.
srican69
(1,426 posts)sigh !
wickerwoman
(5,662 posts)Name one company ever that withheld a performance bonus because the employee owed back taxes? The one has nothing to do with the other. If they have a union contract, it probably stipulates the circumstances under which they should be given bonuses. If they are on contract, then it would be breaching that contract not to give the bonuses for unrelated reasons.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I had NO IDEA there were so many anti-gummit people on this site. I found out yesterday just how many. Holy shit!
sendero
(28,552 posts)... or you could wonder why an agency that is famous for bulldozer tactics to collect back taxes cannot apply that to their own employees. Seems like a double standard to me. And frankly, I have a very low opinion of people who don't pay their taxes to begin with. If I ran the IRS and you wouldn't pay your taxes, you would not be working for the IRS, period.
wickerwoman
(5,662 posts)IRS agents can be fired for filing their returns late, let alone owing back taxes.
I have a low opinion of people who don't pay their taxes as well, but I also think that we need to maintain a wall between people's personal lives and their employed lives. I don't think people should be able to be fired or have their bonuses revoked because they smoke or drink or eat too much or gamble or watch porn in their free time *as long as it has no impact on their work performance*.
Owing back taxes is bad (although it can also be the result of a misunderstanding). But I don't think it impacts work performance and any half decent employment contract would make that distinction when it comes to performance bonuses.
I also think an organisation like the IRS needs to maintain firewalls between information that it gathers for one purpose (to collect taxes) and other possible uses of that information (assessing employee performance). I don't think it's ethical for HR to access that information and use it for reasons other than what it was intended for. It's like someone working for a medical insurance company losing their job because HR found out through their claims that they had HIV or cancer.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)i agree with you, this is a non-story.
srican69
(1,426 posts)I doesn't even cover the extra expenses during holiday season...
former9thward
(32,066 posts)Afterall they would not want to be "insulted".
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)srican69
(1,426 posts)And the bonus is the only mechanism to reward that effort
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)How many bank employees are late on their bank-issued credit cards.
Their personal business, and their job performance, are two different things.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)bonus?
It took me about 6 months to get it totally straightened out. My wife had left her job mid-year, and the next year her employer sent us a W-2 that was wrong. It differed significantly from what they sent the government.
I'd have been pretty angry if my company didn't give me the bonus that I was supposed to receive for my work ... I earned it.
Do we really want ANY employer, even the government, withholding pay, because of a disagreement about one's tax situation?
Sure, if you go to court and LOSE, then maybe they take from your wages as part of the legal settlement. But if that's not the case, I'd be against them withholding bonus for this reason.
Bonduel
(96 posts)and I was having them be tough on the same sub for money owed to my company, you can bet I would hold a bonus back until it was cleared up. It becomes very difficult for me to look a sub in the eye and tell them they need to pay their bills when people in my own collection department owe them money.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Bonduel
(96 posts)I wouldn't care if one of my employees owed taxes to the government because he doesn't work for the government. He works for me. These people have a job that collects taxes from people and they don't like it when you don't pay. Yet they have people who work for them who aren't paying their taxes. I don't think they should lose their job but I also don't think they should get a bonus until this is cleared up.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Let's say you work for me. I have a construction company and I sub-contract some areas, like plumbing. You are my employee, and you get one of the sub-contractors I use to help you do renovations on your home. That arrangement is 100% between you and that sub. My business is not involved.
Now, if you and that sub-contractor get into a dispute over who owes who ... I am not involved in any way. And, if I include bonuses as part of your total compensation, and that bonus is based on your performance as my employee, that money is yours, and I can not withhold it from you if you and that sub contract have a dispute. My business is not part of it.
Now, back to the government. If an IRS employee is having a dispute over how much taxes they have paid, you can't withhold their earnings. Or, I guess we think the government should be able to just stop paying them altogether. The bonus is part of their total compensation. You can no more withhold that, they you can stop paying their medical benefits that are also part of the job.
To do so is basically extortion.
Bonduel
(96 posts)but I completely control the bonuses I give out. All of my employees know that they may or may not get a bonus. There is no set amount or even a promise that they will get one. And actually my example is flawed in that my employee would not owe the money to a sub but back to me. Now, I admit, there could be an agreement on paying a debt back to me but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case here. If my employee owes me money that he is suppose to pay me but doesn't I will certainly hold back a possible bonus he might get until it is cleared up.
MattP
(3,304 posts)meanit
(455 posts)n/t
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the link is Google but the source is LA Times?
Dr. Strange
(25,922 posts)This appears to be the actual link:
http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-irs-taxes-bonuses-20140423,0,876215.story#axzz2zjj1agxX
Response to alp227 (Original post)
William769 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Pterodactyl
(1,687 posts)Supersedeas
(20,630 posts)Pterodactyl
(1,687 posts)In the private sector, having legal problems and committing crimes could endanger employment.
Same thing with Hollywood and sports. There are not enough penalties for bad behavior.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)what we have today.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)They are paid bonuses based on their job performance, just like other employees.
They aren't working for the "company store". Their personal money management issues are not a job performance criterion.
This is a complete non-issue.
SomeGuyInEagan
(1,515 posts)... just another excuse to shit on those evil gubmit employess.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Jk
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Unless their wages are being garnished, the IRS has no legal ability to withhold any earned or entitled income.
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)the debt was satisfied.
for years, I didn't get my refund, I paid them back...
WTF is so different that THEY get bonuses? Fairness demands they take any refunds
or bonuses until the back taxes are paid.