"All those who believe that, stand on their heads!" -Col Blake, MASH

I think the ball in now in Israel's court. The PLO recognized Israel under Arafat and it got them no where. I find it difficult to believe that Israel seriously wants peace beside a Palestinian state. I think they really want occupation forever. That's just my opinion based on history.

Hamas, which seized control of Gaza from Abbas's secular Fatah in a brief 2007 civil war, retains thousands of fighters and an arsenal of rockets. It has fought repeated battles with Israel since it took control of the enclave.

A senior U.S. official said on Thursday that a unity government formed with Hamas could call into question some $500 million in their annual security and budget aid to Abbas.

A future Palestinian government must "unambiguously and explicitly commit to non-violence, recognition of the state of Israel, and acceptance of previous agreements and obligations between the parties," the official told Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/26/us-palestinian-abbas-talks-idUSBREA3P08820140426

There is no point in Israel negotiating with a Palestinian government that includes in any way shape or form Hamas. It would be suicide for Israelis.

Hamas is bent on using violence to achieve its goals. I can't blame Israel for rejecting a process that includes the farcical antics of Abbas and Hamas joining together. If Abbas wants to resolve the Palestinian/Israeli conflict peacefully, it should not join with Hamas to form a government when Hamas does not want to settle the Palestinian/Israeli conflict peacefully. It simply makes no sense whatsoever.

Either Abbas wants a peaceful resolution or he wants to join with Hamas. He can't have it both ways.

I know that a lot of DUers are wedded to the idea that Palestine is an underdog and that they should support the underdog. But we have to use a little common sense. Uniting with Hamas means uniting with a movement that wants to confront Israel with force. Makes no sense to want to make peace with Israel while uniting with a well armed group that wants war. That is a contradiction of which Israel is wise to be wary.

It sounded like a press release from Netanyahu's office. Not one word from you about the constant destruction of Palestinian homes in the West Bank, the expansion of settlements, the killing of Palestinians, and the seizures of private Palestinian land. It's like you think Israel was all gung-ho for peace to happen and wasn't trying to sabotage it any time John Kerry made a statement about negotiations.

The reality is that Israel has been far, far more violent over the past year than any Palestinian faction...

As for yr claim that Hamas is bent on using violence to achieve its goals. At the beginning of this year Hamas deployed its forces along the Gaza/Israel border to try to stop militants from firing rockets...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113456484

Pretty self-defeating move for a faction that is bent on using violence, isn't it?

Until there is no Hamas, Israel is just wasting their time. And since those terrorist groups arent going anywhere, nothing will change.
What good is it that the PA government wont include any Hamas when they would still be THERE? And still be firing their rockets into Israel every day, planning suicide attacks, etc.
Until the people move to rid themselves of them, nothing will change.

As Netanyahu's own party charter absolutely refuses the notion of an Arab state waste of the Jordan.

However, Likud has to acknowledge the "Reality on the ground" that there is indeed a Palestine, and that Palestine is a state with an independent government. So too has Hamas had to do with Israel - you don't think Hamas was negotiating prisoner exchanges and cease-fires with Israel just by coincidence, do you?

No, both these right-wing parties of googly hateful motherfuckers do recognize the reality of the situation in practice, even while their chartered rhetoric claims otherwise. Think of how the Republican party for so long labeled itself "pro-life," yet never actually touched the subject until the tea Party started taking over.

Also, parties are separate from the government they are part of. Likud does not acknowledge or permit the existence of a Palestine - but hte government of Israel does, since 1993. Same with Hamas, again - it refuses to recognize Israel... but the government of Palestine does - also since 1993.

Surveying the wreckage of a neighbor's bungalow hit by a Palestinian rocket, retired Israeli official Avner Cohen traces the missile's trajectory back to an "enormous, stupid mistake" made 30 years ago.

"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel's destruction.

Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with "Yassins," primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847

Best way to control the opposition is to create it yourself. We see the same cynical bets made in Libya and Syria.

I have no sympathy for Netanyahu's position.

I have no sympathy for Hamas' position.

look back this doesn't look like the edits I did. I was trying to get the basics out for those who wouldn't click on the link.

well okay then

I'm trying to figure out is why Fatah and Hamas are forming another coalition government? I thought it was so Abbas could negotiate for both the West Bank and Gaza Strip. With Hamas being designated a terrorist organization by the US and EU any aid Fatah receives would likely be stopped. If Israel and the Palestinians aren't close to a deal why would Abbas risk the loss of aid?

I'm trying to figure out what the upside is for Abbas here. If you know, please enlighten me. I've googled but there isn't much out there and there are tons of entries about Fatah and Hamas forming a coalition back in 06 or 07 to sort through.

the West Bank in the event of agreement, in fact in the I/P group there has been gloating over a 3 state solution, leaving Gaza on its own, from one side

for Abbas to align with them just on principle. Why risk the aid money to his own people for an allied group they don't agree 100% with. Now it makes sense.

according to the Palestinian public opinion poll Hamas would lose March 2014

In presidential elections, Abbas receives 53% and Haniyeh 41%.

http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2014/p51e.pdf

all the info on elections is on page3 of the PDF

Hamas would lose both the PM elections and the parliamentary elections

The only times in which Hamas gains in the polls is after Israeli military operations OCL and Pillar of Cloud for example and those gains are short lived