to ask this time. Maybe something like, "Is it right for Russia to take back Ukraine", answer, "Why yes, the US took over Alaska".

History books say we bought Alaska before we took it over. Did Putin buy the Ukraine?

Soon DU will be invaded by armed masked men in camo, asking that we speak only the truth and stop telling lies like that.

The US bought Alaska, The absurdity of it, if the Russian media say otherwise.

/sarcasm.

Obama's approach is working. The Soviet mindset in the Kremlin does not understand how to address a Western adversary whose first instinct isn't military escalation.

They literally have no idea.

Russia supplies rocket engines (the RD-180) the U.S. uses to put up military communication satellites. If they cut off those it will shut down the Atlas V which delivers the military satellites and deep space exploration vehicles.

Also they can stop ferrying our astronauts to the space station -- something we have no capability to do.

So you can call it bluster if you want.

...call it bluster all I want.

What you've listed are basically Russia's strongest cards. Russia's strongest cards. Think about how truly strong those strongest cards are for a little bit, and then think about how much Russia stands to lose to lose each time they double down. The blowback hasn't and won't only be from the US, you know.

The two biggest countries of the world, India and China, are their allies. That is their strongest card. But they count for nothing I guess. Most of the world thinks we are bullies. That is their next strongest card. And shutting down one of the most important parts of our military I guess is nothing either.

.....largest single economy on the planet.

They refused to back the U.S. at the UN concerning Crimea. China has nothing to fear from the U.S. The U.S does not want to lose the Chinese market and wants them to keep on buying our debt.

.... sure he is.

China has no interest in harming economic relations with the U.S. India neither.

US does not want to lose the Chinese markets? lol, who sells how much to who, how about we would ruin their economy without access to the US market.

Especially their conceptions about the rest of the world.

They buy them from the Russians (or, rather, coproduce them) because it's cost-advantageous.

But PW has all the technical drawings, site, and equipment (supposedly) ready in case that supply of RD-180s becomes shakey. It was a requirement for the government contract and one that the PW folk took seriously a decade ago.

I spent a year translating thousands and thousands of pages of production documents (as well as other kinds of docs) for the RD-180 into English so that PW could comply with that particular requirement. Some new tech. Some 1970s-era tech. Interesting mix for a fairly cheap, reliable engine.

being military escalation?
that is the silliest thing I've seen in print in ages.

Did you read your own post?

...then you're too caught up in pettiness to engage further. Thanks for making it crystal clear.

Guess I got pwned (???)

I don't know... if someone makes a point, and you have some brilliant reply... you ought to be able to back it up, rather than imply that the person you disagree with was just nitpicking about grammar. Which is absurd.

But you knew that.

as I couldn't stomach any more of this fascist fellow traveling BS.
Ah well.
The reality is this: the people who are disgusted are the Europeans, with the behavior of the fascists who took over in Slovyansk:

Then again, I'm not a European dependent on Russian natural gas! It still bothers me that Europeans aren't more vocal about Putin being a bully.

International businessmen and bankers who would benefit from the partition of Ukraine.

Exxon Mobil Corp. has signed a deal with Russia's Rosneft that gives the U.S. company access to some of the world's richest sources of oil and other hydrocarbons in the Black Sea and the Russian Arctic. The two companies are set to start exploration this year.

The alliance that also envisages multibillion dollar investments in energy projects in the Black Sea, Siberia and Russia's far east, seems too big to be shaken by political storms.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/despite-chill-cooperation-between-us-and-russia

It would mean that the "tensions" between the two puppets are just theatrics.

They can remember that. The U.S. has had nothing comparable -- even the Civil War. We have shorter memories.

The devastation had a huge impact on European attitudes toward conflict and war. So much so that it is hard to imagine another war among Western Europeans.

Which is one of the reasons behind the forming of the EU. Extremism in certain countries led to both wars.

....the US government stuck its nose in Ukraine's problems. They were perfectly happy to leave it as a client state of Russia. Ukraine's problems run too far and too deep to be fixed in the near future. Plus Russia has repeated its issues with the advancement of NATO on its door steps....Georgia was good warning.....and was ignored...you expect Putin to sit back quietly and watch Ukraine a nation that's been under the influence or direct control of the Russian Empire even before the USA existed, to just sit back and let it fall to influence under the USA....And possibly under NATO control? You're high if you think they would.

Without significant sanctions from the EU....the US sanctions are worthless. Sure there might be short term economic impacts...but it will be short term. Plus Russia has lived under worse conditions before...it was under the previous Russian President, Borris Yeltsin...and before that...they had the Soviet Union.

Too many people here are looking at this in terms of "USA Good, Russia Bad"....and "history only happened in the last 20 years".

When Poland, Russia and Ukraine came to an agreement on Yanukovych's stepping down and new elections....that should have been the end of it. Nope, all hell breaks loose and Victoria Nuland is caught...."hand picking" Ukraine's new leaders. People can put their head in the sand all they want and say "Putin is a bully"....but the USA has had a bigger and longer track record or removing governments it doesn't like for one that will further its "interests".

Why not give an argument instead of innuendo?

Please. Moscow has already stated what it wants....a Federalized Ukraine. The response? Ukraine said they would "consider it" in the May ballot...and would be a joke if they did.

So...they continue the pressure in eastern Ukraine. So either they federalize....or....we can see the Balkans Part two - The Russian Empire Strikes Back.

The US Government for some reason can't figure out what it wants. They think bad publicity and a minor Russian recession is enough to get Putin to back off. C'mon...get real. Ever since Tsar Peter the Great....Europe has known that the best way to get Russia to assimilate to European ideas....is to trade and continue to engage...keep things open. But when you isolate The Bear....you push it further away and encourage it to act unilaterally.

But maybe that's the problem...we got egg on our face in Egypt, Palestine, Libya, Syria, Georgia, Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran is a wild card. And China has been throwing a monkey wrench into everything in Asia. In our own sphere, the Cuba Twitter thing has certainly backfired and given more Central and South American nations to distrust us.

Our decades upon decades of military adventurism, CIA plots, etc. seems to have finally caught up. Bush promised Georgia the moon....and failed....and I'm betting we are doing the same in Ukraine. If we don't hold up to it....the US government is not going look like a nation capable living up to its promises. Add to that, there is no more appetite for war or getting involved with foreign problems due to the previous President's screw ups. So were flaying about looking for a "victory".

chuckstevens

Believe me - Europe ar vocal - when it comes to Russian being a bully - at the same time many in Europe is depended of the russian gas - and want not to antagonize Russia to much - at least not at first - but somehow I think it will be harder for european leaders to not give the message to Putin - that he have to play nice - or he might end up with the short stick longer down the road... Europe as a whole have doing a great deal work to make the continent less depended on oil and gas - even though it is a long way before Europe as a whole can get rid of the dependency of energy from gas all tighter - but Russia highlight both the danger and the need for a whole different idea when it comes to energy dependence of Russia.... Some of the reasons most europeans is maybe somewhat downbeat in their statements - is because we have a history - going back a while - half of the continent was under Russian control 25 years ago - and that experience is still there for everyone who want to look for it - half the continent is still poor comparing to the western part - and Europe as an continent have still a lot of things to sort out - before it can speak as one - when country's like Russia act as they do... Sometimes it is also the hope - that if we do it behind closed doors - it might be understood by the russians even if it is not to be common knowledge before 20 or 30 years time when it is called the past... I believe diplomats from every european nations are in gear - doing their best to get the russians understand how bad this is - and that it would be a very vice idea from the russians to calm it down - and to not push it to hard...

But then again - Putin i playing his own chess game - a game where we do not know all the cards - even that we know that he ever since he got the presidency from Yeltsin New years eve 2000 have worked hard to be able to influence parts of the soviet unions - like the central asian country's - and Ukraine who russians is seen as a material part of Russia - a more important part of Russia than most other parts of the former Soviet Union by the way... And he is also using the latent nationalism in Russia - to make sure he got his back covered - when it goes on the offensive - for the last decade or so - have Putin build up an image of himself - as a man of the people - and also a big supporter of the national values of Mother Russia - and he have more or less given a free pass for extreme nationalists who now and then have being attaching minorities - or others who is seen as not part of Russia itself - And specially after the Winter Olympic this year - Putin had the possibility to play hardball with Ukraine - in fact more than hardball - really a bully after all - and for the moment I doubt no one have the full control over the situation - specially after represents from OSSE was attached - and arrested and at the moment not liberated and in a safe place - inside or outside of Ukraine....
Putin have in many ways being playing the national Hero things for a long time - Sometimes he have been able to play it right - and being in control - for the moment I'm not sure Putin always are in charge - or in control - I think his own rhetoric have managed to get the best of him - and he is now playing with some ugly fire he have no clue to calm down - or to blow out... A old wording in Russia says something like this "Something the Tsar ride the bear - sometimes the bear ride the Tsar" - Here I believe the bear ride Putin - and not the other way around - he is playing a dangerous game - a game I fear Putin might not have the full control over anymore...

Even though - he might have some control - and is using the control he have - to make sure his dream of undoing the break-up of the Soviet Union - and to undo the last 25 year of history as best that he is able to do it - and to rebuild a Russia he can be proud of - russians can be proud of - and the rest of the world fear...
After all - he is a KGB officer - and if it was not for the break-up the Soviet Union - he might as well be one of the most powerfully KGB generals alive today... He had the right connections - he had the best education the soviet could give him - and he had for a long time being playing the spy game with the best western intelligence systems - with some luck to boot...

Diclotican

Your comment that the bear might be riding Putin instead of the other way around is very interesting.

I have limited internet access at this time, but I can watch Al Jazeera America on satellite TV. They interviewed a deputy national security adviser from the Bush II administration. The fellow did not seem like many of the others from that administration--he was very pragmatic. He said that he feared that the situation in eastern Ukraine might get completely out of hand because it was not clear that either Moscow or Kiev was in control of their supporters who might take matters into their own hands.

Your comment is along similar lines.

I'm sorry, but I probably won't be able to return to the internet to make a timely reply to any further comment of yours.

It's so hilariously funny. Russia the poutage king.

This whole situation looks very dangerous to me. Tensions are rising between the great powers. If this continues, it would be very easy for war to break out. And Europe is right in the middle.

I'm enjoying reading this thread, thus far.

laurent

And the fact - the great powers are in tensions - is the reasons most european country's have not been to vocal against Russia - because if war was to broke out - the continent would be right in the middle of the actions - and after all - it little over 70 years now - the last great conflict ended - and 4 generations have followed after that war - with more knowledge about WW2 than the ones who experienced it first hand because WW2 is one of the subjects who still after all this years have interest from most europeans - and it is written a lot of books on the subject...

Diclotican

The HORROR!!

What will we do with out........hmmmmmm....can't really think of anything... Stoli? Switch to Absolut!

I guess no more Lada's for the US.....lol

And the US aerospace companies would love to have some rush orders to fill any voids left from the Russian space agencies.

Along with a pacifier

They are claiming the sanctions would have no affect and then complaining about them. So which is it Russia?

All this hawkish commentary and bravado is very unbecoming of sensible people. Too many lackeys trying to relive the missile crisis.

What we do in our neighborhood is none of your business!"

The chief argument for what Russia is doing here is the same argument the United States employs for meddlings in South and Central America and the Caribbean. It is odd to see people who routinely denounce the one upholding the other....

posts ranging from "send Putin some diapers" to "oooooh, we're scared"!

Nothing like some intelligent political dialogue to get the old circulation going...