juried on my last two links by someone who has been following me all over the board. Not worth it.

First link to hidden post, second to jury results.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014787623#post7

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014787623#post10

And again, first to hidden post, second to jury results:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014797263#post48

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014797263#post52

As a bit of icing on the cake, we have a ringing endorsement of ethnic cleansing aimed at Roma, here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014790244#post13

Glad they were removed.

Why does it never take more than thirty seconds to find poison swill at links he posts?

"WideAwakeGentile" also had some incredibly, over the top, nasty homophobic "articles." My "favorite" was how gay rights in India was the work of the Jews.

No telling what a bold boy might find, and claim was the first item to pop up on an innocent Google....

& then self-deleting the post http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=797079

your words, and how wanting Russia to invade Ukraine because of the burning building is very comparable to wanting the US to invade Iraq because of 9/11--and it's very revealing that you find that totally incomprehensible.

Now you want Russia to shock-and-awe/blitzkrieg over Ukraine. It's the POV of the morally lost, the hateful, the warmongering, and exactly how many innocent people do you want to die, by the way, how many are acceptable, for this fantasy of Good Guy Putin and his Wholesome Unselfish Goal of Stopping the Evil Banker Cartel Fascists?

attacks one after the other.

yeah, Putin is a victim too

recent changes in Western political ideaology that is painting the West into an inescapable corner. Here again, you use the word "blitzkrieg", which I never used. This is the stuff the western media does and the Right does every day. I understand now, uhnope...took me awhile.

At least in terms of its use vis a vis invasion of Poland.

That's what you were suggesting.

Fact is you suggested Russia should invade Ukraine and do it with insurmountable force to deal with Ukraine's fascists.

Without any thought of collateral damage (and trust me, there WOULD be collateral damage), potential occupation, or creating a power vacuum.

these conversations are meaningless. The script is on the table already. I just got a breaking from John Sellers from Social Justice that says a court decision just knocked out net neutrality temporarily pending the final nail in the coffin next week. See, Fred, you don't know what's going on. I do. Russian-Ukraine is just another cog in the wheel the American Fascists are building. They are going to take everything while we watch and think it's all about Russia v/Ukraine.

You're living in a fantasy world, especially if you think the same Putin that completely leveled one of his own cities would have any qualms about civilian casualties in Ukraine.

Distract all you wish, you're advocating for a war crime with almost identical deflections and assurances of the Iraq War engineers.

...most of the hostages.

Examples see:

The Beslan school hostage crisis which ending with the death of over 380 people with the use of "standard hostage rescue weapons", lol, like T-72 tanks, RPG's and Shmel rockets, classified in Russia as flamethrowers and in the West as thermobaric weapons, or the as fu*ked up theater "rescue" where the Russian Alpha Group forces pumped an undisclosed chemical agent into the building's ventilation system during the raid, all 40 of the attackers were killed by Russian forces, (most while passed out no doubt!) and about 130 hostages died due to adverse reactions to the gas (including nine foreigners). All but two of the hostages who died during the siege were killed by the toxic substance pumped into the theater to subdue the militants.

The Russians are coming to rescue us? Oh GOD NO!!!!

(Stand by for the usual suspects to come to the Russians defense here)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

There was absolutely no police or military security at the scene for such a long time.
You had these desperate fathers trying to break into the school with rifles, others in the crowd outside trying to wrestle the these poor men down because they were afraid that shooting would cause the militants to blow themselves up.
It was really one of the most tragic things I have seen unfold.

The burning of the union building in Odessa immediately reminded me of Beslan.
Rumors running wild through the crowd, gunshots from who knows where, everyone feeling that they are under attack from the other side.
Just utter chaos that was only made possible due to incompetence and, in my opinion, corruption of the security forces.

of it. I heard about it from my parents, so we knew to look for it.

That was my introduction to the Russian media, by the way. That a three day siege could go on without any media coverage whatsoever is just so bizarre.

we don't know because you deleted it. But you forgot this one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=797086
you want the invasion "the faster the better...moved in with insurmountable forces...would be over fast"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=797256

So please, tell us. How many dead Ukrainians are acceptable as Russian tanks and bombs spread over the country, as valiant hero Putin fights the "bank cartels" (you are aware that this is often a code word, don't you?) by occupying his "New Russia. Please tell.

During a Russian invasion?

Seems.......unlikely

And knew what it revealed you as....

the ether about things he could only speculate about. I have speculation about you too.

right wing links. The face sheets for the links I posted did not show the real damaging connections. For me to have found them, I would have had to study the link subtitles. I can't really talk now because the chief link examiner who spends much of his time castigating others for their links and then following them all over the board is here now. Many are aware of this; I've gotten four emails on this since yesterday.

...so now you know a bit more about what you can get away with

They deserved to be hidden.

Your claim when caught at that one was that it was the first thing that came up when you searched for 'Victoria Nuland', which I have yet to find be the result from my or anyone else's search for that. Now browsers do customize a bit, so if it was the first up for you, that would indicate you have been to that or similar sites frequently, and your browser has learned where you want to go, from where you consistently fetch up.

appeared on the site. My approximation of Victoria Nuland has not changed. Let's see who ends up right about her. As you were...

And no one believes you did not know at first glance what a site titled 'wide awake gentile' was all about.

right mind could tell anything about what the site was from those words

it.

the day he called the alert. But Magistrate kept posting the same original links and the jury decision on every discussion I was in; thereby, doing something analogous to double jeopardy in a court of law. Why have a jury system with repercussions with it if the alerter keeps retrying the defendant every post he/she makes based on a past decision? There is a word for this and a system of governance that does it automatically.

There are some minimum standards of understanding necessary for being taken seriously in adult discussion.

doubts regarding the decision of said trial. Calling a person "sir" constantly in the same paragraph reverses the respect the word is intended to impart. As I find more info, I will summarize and let you know. If I am not here, another will.

As it should be, when someone posts to hate sites, and claims them to be legitimate sources.

across the bench from you, but this is your court and trifling with you brings out unusual behavior that seems to feed on itself.

Publishing results of a trial is not part of a trial, or a retrial.

If you refuse to understand basic categories, there is really not much anyone can do for you.

Or any reason to treat your comments on events of moment as anything but frivolous.

screwed up. Well, this is getting boring.

The line you are attempting in defense does not help you.

What it amounts to is announcing you are so naive as to be unaware of blatant anti-semitism when you encounter it. If one accepts that claim, then it follows that any comment you make on political events or world affairs must be of no value, because so naive a person could not possibly have a useful degree of understanding of such matters.

naivete is the kindest word for these "comments" http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=797815

to shut you down, ballyhoo!

Their Lord and Leader will have the last word or he'll raise the Mighty Hand of His Jury against your blasphemy.

We're supposed to praise Obama, Kerry and the EU's neo-Nazi henchmen for their handiwork in Ukraine, not saying anything otherwise. Heresy will not be tolerated at this website. (Now this will get hidden too lol!)

my PM to you. It will all be taken care of. Remember the flight of the foo foo bird.

And referred to them as "drugged-out g*****s", right?

of the censors on this site, not something ballyhoo said.

I've experienced what ballyhoo has so I can speak on it.

has posted links to anti-Semitic sources, and wants a war of aggression against Ukraine.

Tough shit that people are calling him on it.

"I'll cover that in my PM to you. It will all be taken care of."

who now sides with the pro-Putin fans of invading Ukraine.

It is like reading dispatched form the Iran/Iraq War, or accounts of battles on the eastern front from Russian and German sources together. About all the account have in common is the location of the event; both accounts can be safely assumed to contain a high proportion of self-interested lies. And as usual, the video footage, which has certainly undergone some edits, does not clearly depict things it would be good to have a visual record of.

Sir bringing to you attention the agit prop story on Iraqi troops throwing babies off incubator sir...and the yellow Cake and aluminum tubes for nukes story sir ..sir yes sir..

Seriously, you need some new material, and you also need to stop imagining people you address fell off the turnip truck just this morning....

I sir am long in the tooth...I sure did not fall off any such truck Sir you need better material sir ..seems trite cliché kind of material sir...I am not to be bullied Sir no sir.

Telephones had dials still back then, lots of them, anyway....

It is always the victim's fault according to right wingers.

pro or anti Russia?

The building was a sort of headquarters for that crowd....

just getting things straight in my head

To call it pro-Russia is to take a pro-coup stance, to call the other side "anti-Russia" suggests an anti-coup stance. To call the present government in Kiev a coup government definitely suggests a stance, of course, but it's a lot less ridiculous than to call it a democratic popular revolution! Let alone "pro-Ukrainian," when it has acted to stoke ethnic divisions and thus break up the Ukrainian state in the name of Ukrainian ethnicity. Anyway, there's no neutrality here: terms must be chosen, and they will inevitably define the different sides.

How is that that not properly categorized as being Pro-Russian?

To call it "pro/anti coup government", you would first have to provide definitive proof of what happened in Kyiv actually fits into the proper definition of a coup. That has yet to be done. (Cookie talk doesn't count.)

This shows the initial attack. Towards the very end you see some flaming stuff being thrown; to my eye it looks like someone picked up pieces of the burning tent encampment and threw them at the ground floor. This one was obviously edited by someone looking to incriminate the pro-Maidan side, as you see it freeze near the beginning at a scene of some guy shooting a gun at a poster; that gun is either not loaded or not real, since it punches no holes in the poster. Still, this is the best one I've come across of the start of the attack:

The molotov coctails on the roof fell. There are videos of them hitting the top of the 3rd story window after falling down from higher. It's hard to throw something like that 40 feet nearly straight up in the air. They came from the roof and broke. Some hit the porch roof. Some broke the windows on the 3rd floor.

That doesn't mean that there weren't Molotov cocktails thrown through the front door.

Ultimately the investigation, lead by whomever Palitsya appoints (he's the new oblast governor), will have to determine if the problem was a fire in the lobby or a fire in a 3rd-story office.

The claims of some chemical found in the building doesn't help matters, but may help explain why "smoke inhalation" was such a problem.

Note that contrary to a lot of reports, there's footage showing pro-Maidan "protesters" helping some of the anti-Maidan folk, just as there's footage showing some pro-Maidan protesters beating anti-Maidan folk. Working out the timeline is a vexed nuisance, as well, given Youtube-based research.

OP says it was members of a karate club who on their own volition got scaffolding and made ad hoc fire escapes out of them.
I'm digging in elsewhere, and now it seems Russia is claiming more than a hundred people were actually killed, that the water was turned off in that building to prevent firefighting, and that ammonia gas was used to suffocate the people inside.
Sigh.

Be careful there is an information war going on


Another NYT ‘Sort of’ Retraction on Ukraine

By Robert Parry

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/05/04/another-nyt-sort-of-retraction-on-ukraine/

The New York Times, which has asserted for weeks that the Russian government is behind the unrest in Ukraine’s east, finally sent some reporters to the region to dig up the proof, but all they found were eastern Ukrainians upset by the coup regime in Kiev that replaced President Viktor Yanukovych.

The Times, which has been an unapologetic promoter of the “pro-democracy” uprising that ousted the democratically elected president through violent extra-constitutional means, has recently been promoting the “theme” that Ukrainians would be happy with their new unelected government if only the Russians weren’t “destabilizing eastern Ukraine.”.............

...............................Times’ editors thought they had the goods two weeks ago with a front-page scoop featuring photographs supposedly proving the presence of Russian special forces troops. According to the Times, the photos “clearly” showed Russian special forces in Russia and then the same soldiers in eastern Ukraine.

However, only two days later, the scoop unraveled when it turned out that a key photo – supposedly showing a group of soldiers in Russia who later appeared in eastern Ukraine – was actually taken in Ukraine, destroying the premise of the entire story.

The window is neither broken or open, and it is hard to explain the flame by anything but a bobbled incendiary device. That such were being handled inside the building ( and not handled too well ) seems to be a fact.

Sir yes sir I went back to the video and at the 2.07 mark there appears to a fire in the third floor and the first floor story Sir...at 3 43 I saw no fire on the roof yet sir..at 2 26 fire on first floor and at the entrance of the building Sir !! One can see Molotov cocktails being thrown at the ground floor Sir!!

...........right-wing toughs in Odessa attacked an encampment of ethnic Russian protesters driving them into a trade union building which was then set on fire with Molotov cocktails. As the building was engulfed in flames, some people who tried to flee were chased and beaten, while those trapped inside heard the Ukrainian nationalists liken them to black-and-red-striped potato beetles called Colorados, because those colors are used in pro-Russian ribbons.

“Burn, Colorado, burn” went the chant.

As the fire worsened, those dying inside were serenaded with the taunting singing of the Ukrainian national anthem. The building also was spray-painted with Swastika-like symbols and graffiti reading “Galician SS,” a reference to the Ukrainian nationalist army that fought alongside the German Nazi SS in World War II, killing Russians on the eastern front.

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/05/05/ukraines-dr-strangelove-reality/

Please define. Am I an ethnic (insert here) because my parents came from (insert here)? Any article using such a bullshit term should be rejected out of hand.
Beyond that, I posted a nice long video of the initial attack. The OP posted one. I've looked at lots of others. I haven't seen, in any of them, anything like what that author is describing re the graffiti. I haven't seen anything remotely approaching that anywhere.
So put up some proof.

They are Russian-speaking Ukrainians whose families have lived in the Ukraine for a long time. There's not really an ethnic or cultural difference. I would bet most Russian-speaking Ukrainians considered themselves Ukrainian while wanting peace and good relations with both the EU and Russia.

The term exaggerates differences while glossing over commonalities.

I will not reject it out of hand sir!! the author Sir is Investigative reporter Robert Parry who broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s....this is not an anonymous person on the Internet ..Sir..

...and that their position wasn't pro-Russian so much as anti-Kiev. There's a lot of stuff going on on the ground, and simplifying it down, as this author does, to mere ethnic strife is a buncha crap, to put it politely.

both Robert Parry and Seymour Hersch ...someone "over on Reddit"...now I see your point....LOl

Seymour Hersh ain't no anon internet person either, and he's shilling for Assad, so really, I don't care. Proof. Please.

Is that a new phrase for "speaking truth to power " ....are you upset about his Abbu Ghraib reporting is that your hurt?

Let me see
Seymour Hersh Pulitzer prize winning journalist and you...hard choice on whose judgement to go by ...you have some dirt on Robert Parry or Hersh... Robert Parry award winning Journalist author of various books ...gee I don't know




....am I in democratic Underground?

...what your opinion is. Proof. Please.

I don't think I will care about your opinions whatsoever no matter how long I am here sir ..

you also could have reinforced your rather flimsily supported claims rather than patronize me with pretentious advice . I thank you for your suggestions however misguided and hubris filled...

You have.

Also, sir/ma'am is Magistrate's shtick. I'd leave it to him.

Hard to be sure, the posts are none too coherent --- things do not seem to hang together right in word choice and order, somehow....

That is my opinion of your post...sanctimonious and ponderous ...Sir yes Sir

I posted claims by experienced and noted journalists and provided link to the articles...it was Robert Perry and Hersch ....paraphrase the claims I made that you take exception to ...

I only pointed out how the snark isn't doing you any favors.

So you are commenting on posts you have not read...I like the honesty... I am not sure I am taking advice from you though...you can understand Right...I will not be bullied by anyone..

Here:

A: I make a claim.

B: Could you present more evidence?

A: Here's more evidence.

How it's gone so far:

A: I make a claim.

B: Could you present more evidence?

A: MEANIE BUTT I WILL NOT BE SILENCED SNARK SNARK.


There's the problem.

I may be Meanie but your post seem Pompous ponderous and pedantic. It is not anything I pay attention to however I do not tolerate fools with a ridiculous superiority complex ... I would prefer someone like you, that I do not respect, not post to me Sir

Here is more video from Odessa showing the fire did not start at the top floor...fires were set at the entrances ...N Cocktails can be seen flying upwards and gun men shooting towards the building. Women and men some elderly lie burnt or wounded ...does not seem to support at all the Kiev version...

Also, I wasn't calling you a meanie. I was referring to how you reacted.