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dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
Fri May 16, 2014, 08:24 AM May 2014

Russia says will discuss gas price discount if Kiev pays $2.237 bln of debt

Source: Reuters

May 16 (Reuters) - Russia is ready to discuss a gas price discount for Ukraine if Ukraine pays off the $2.237 billion it owed Russia for gas as of April 1, Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak said on Friday.

"We will discuss this if they pay even the debt owed on April 1, and this was $2.237 billion," he said. Russia has said Kiev's gas debt has now reached just over $3.5 billion.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/16/ukraine-crisis-gas-idUSL6N0O22JN20140516

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Russia says will discuss gas price discount if Kiev pays $2.237 bln of debt (Original Post) dipsydoodle May 2014 OP
The gall of those people! another_liberal May 2014 #1
I'm waiting for the 11th dimensional chess riposte Demeter May 2014 #2
It's coming . . . another_liberal May 2014 #7
Yes, punish all of Ukraine for what the oligarchs did. joshcryer May 2014 #3
Asking to be paid as previously agreed is "punishing" Ukraine? another_liberal May 2014 #8
The agreement was written by oligarchs. joshcryer May 2014 #21
at worst, that would be as bad as what IMF does yurbud May 2014 #22
The IMF couldn't do it if the oligarchs didn't screw Ukraine. joshcryer May 2014 #23
yep. there has to be an oligarch to bribe or you get into the whole economic hitman scenario yurbud May 2014 #27
But Putin did that. joshcryer May 2014 #28
Is that what we do with the wealthy in other countries? yurbud May 2014 #29
We actually arrested a Ukraine oligarch recently. joshcryer May 2014 #30
when we arrest our own oligarchs, from one of those top seven American banks... yurbud May 2014 #31
Yup. ctsnowman May 2014 #4
Russia should use US business negotiation tactics to get the money..... go west young man May 2014 #5
Indeed! another_liberal May 2014 #6
The whole thing is indeed a pleasant voyage thus far. go west young man May 2014 #16
Wasn't Crimea enough of a payment already? NutmegYankee May 2014 #9
Russia already held a lease on Crimea for the warm-water port Demeter May 2014 #10
They had a lease on a naval base, not a whole province. NutmegYankee May 2014 #11
Popular vote AND defensible borders Demeter May 2014 #12
What self-determination? NutmegYankee May 2014 #13
Who says it was a fake vote? Demeter May 2014 #14
*yawn* NutmegYankee May 2014 #15
That would be "Vladimir Putin’s own Council on the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights" pampango May 2014 #17
Just as we all support self-determination for the people of Chechnya. pampango May 2014 #18
We didn't even give the Native Americans a vote. ozone_man May 2014 #20
Of course, the lease was on a naval base only. And leasing does not imply ownership. It's an pampango May 2014 #19
That means they did not own it Duckhunter935 May 2014 #26
Gazprom head soothes Europe over gas supply via Ukraine dipsydoodle May 2014 #24
Biden's son will assure any shortfalls fall on Gazprom. joshcryer May 2014 #25
 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
1. The gall of those people!
Fri May 16, 2014, 08:43 AM
May 2014

They are actually demanding the payment agreed to for goods already delivered? The unreasonable bastards!

(sarcasm, of course)

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
21. The agreement was written by oligarchs.
Sat May 17, 2014, 10:44 PM
May 2014

The theft was done by oligarchs.

So to agree to a crony, oligarchical contract is to, quite literally, steal from the people.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
23. The IMF couldn't do it if the oligarchs didn't screw Ukraine.
Sun May 18, 2014, 02:33 AM
May 2014

So it's still the oligarchs' fault. The same thing happened to Greece. Rich elites stealing from the people causing the country to no longer be able to pay its bills.

The only country to really go after the elites is Iceland, but then, Iceland could afford to default. Greece, not so much. Ukraine, absolutely not. If Ukraine defaulted Russia would send them into bitter cold winters for years. Tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people would die.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
27. yep. there has to be an oligarch to bribe or you get into the whole economic hitman scenario
Mon May 19, 2014, 10:26 AM
May 2014

my point was that it's hypocritical for our government to criticize Putin for that when they are carrying water for bankers who intentionally break countries to steal their natural resources.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
28. But Putin did that.
Mon May 19, 2014, 05:24 PM
May 2014

When the oligarchs stole the gas he should have held them accountable, instead he saw a profitable situation.

Ukraine should have never ever been responsible for Gazprom's pipelines. It is ridiculous. Contract law 101.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
30. We actually arrested a Ukraine oligarch recently.
Mon May 19, 2014, 07:19 PM
May 2014
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA2C14V20140313?irpc=932

I know, the USA is evil, can do no right, etc.

But if you fuck with US interests we will get you.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
31. when we arrest our own oligarchs, from one of those top seven American banks...
Tue May 20, 2014, 12:24 PM
May 2014

that would be a step in the right direction.

 

go west young man

(4,856 posts)
5. Russia should use US business negotiation tactics to get the money.....
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:51 PM
May 2014

just sanction them, bomb them, invade them and get your Russian equivalent Ivy league son a job sitting back and filtering off their wages and resources. And don't forget to blame the whole thing on..em....let's see........Quebec. Yeah that sounds about right.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
10. Russia already held a lease on Crimea for the warm-water port
Sat May 17, 2014, 08:50 AM
May 2014

NATO/EU/USA sought to cancel that lease....by an outside-driven coup.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
12. Popular vote AND defensible borders
Sat May 17, 2014, 08:54 AM
May 2014

Surely you support the self-determination of the people of Crimea, given you are a child of revolution yourself?

NutmegYankee

(16,200 posts)
13. What self-determination?
Sat May 17, 2014, 08:55 AM
May 2014

You actually believe that fake vote? Not to mention that the actual Crimean people (Tartars) were purged by Russia.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
14. Who says it was a fake vote?
Sat May 17, 2014, 09:02 AM
May 2014

Name ONE reputable, non-PNAC, non-EU, non-bankster source.

Gullible people fall for propaganda...over in our Weekend Economist Thread, we get regular reports from an American expat on the ground. I'd take his observations over any amount of demonization any government puts out.

NutmegYankee

(16,200 posts)
15. *yawn*
Sat May 17, 2014, 10:12 AM
May 2014

Have fun with your Russian propaganda. The rain has stopped and it's time to go outside for me.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
17. That would be "Vladimir Putin’s own Council on the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights"
Sat May 17, 2014, 10:29 AM
May 2014
Vladimir Putin’s own Council on the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights has confirmed that the turnout for the so-called “referendum” on the Crimea’s status was much lower than reported, and the results also far less overwhelmingly in favour of joining Russia. The same results have been reported from other sources, however this report can hardly be dismissed as seditious US propaganda. The confirmation that Russia used falsified figures to justify the annexation comes on the eve of other supposed “referendums” planned for two east Ukrainian oblasts.

http://khpg.org/index.php?id=1399238176

pampango

(24,692 posts)
18. Just as we all support self-determination for the people of Chechnya.
Sat May 17, 2014, 10:38 AM
May 2014

Russia has many areas with ethnically distinct groups are in the majority. I have not seen Vladimir or others in the Russian government rushing to allow 'self-determination' for those folks. It would seem that the 'right of self-determination' only apply to those with the support of large armies, certainly not to those opposed by large armies.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
20. We didn't even give the Native Americans a vote.
Sat May 17, 2014, 12:56 PM
May 2014

Just annexed their territory. How quickly people forget that we are the supreme annexers.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
19. Of course, the lease was on a naval base only. And leasing does not imply ownership. It's an
Sat May 17, 2014, 10:43 AM
May 2014

acknowledgement that the property belongs to someone else and you are paying for the use of the property for a specified amount of money.

If one is leasing something and then decides just to keep it - not to buy it for an agreed upon price, just to keep it - that is considered theft. While there may not be anyone strong enough to do anything about it, it is what it is.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
26. That means they did not own it
Sun May 18, 2014, 09:23 AM
May 2014

and not the Ukrainian navel assets and bases with hardware they have stolen after invading with unmarked troops that even Putin eventually acknowledged, were Russian.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
24. Gazprom head soothes Europe over gas supply via Ukraine
Sun May 18, 2014, 04:47 AM
May 2014

(Reuters) - Russia's Gazprom assured European customers it would continue to supply their gas, after its threat to halts supplies to transit nation Ukraine next month over non-payment.

Any shortfall would be the fault of Ukraine, chief executive Alexei Miller told Russian television. Moscow blamed theft by Ukraine for a disruption to exports in a previous dispute.

Russia has warned that it will not supply Ukraine with gas in June unless Kiev pays in advance $1.66 billion (987 million pounds) by June 2, raising fears that gas piped to Europe through Ukraine could be affected.

"Gazprom will simply supply Ukraine as much as gas as it will have bought, and to the Russian border with Ukraine we will send as much gas as Europe should get and Ukraine should transit," Miller said in an interview on Rossiya-24 television.

"It would be our Ukrainian partners' responsibility for a so-called unauthorised off-take. But Gazprom from its part will do everything to ensure that European customers have no problems," Miller told the news show Vesti.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/05/17/uk-ukraine-crisis-russia-gas-idUKKBN0DX07B20140517

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
25. Biden's son will assure any shortfalls fall on Gazprom.
Sun May 18, 2014, 09:14 AM
May 2014

No future deals will fall on the Ukrainian people to burden if someone plays bad.

It'll cost a few billion though which will usher in austerity. But like Greece, they will soldier on, and unlike Greece they have vast natural resources to be exploited.

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