I can imagine Harvey Korman dressed as a Nazi dominatrix saying, "We have vays of making you mince!"

I can't get that image out of my head now.

Thanks now I will have this tune humming in my head later

Winter for Cry me a Crimea!

He comes from a long line of English Queens.

with his bigot words.

Or maybe he's got some untreated venereal disease that's made him go a bit wobbly!

given that Ukraine is even more extreme than Russia with respect to homophobia.

...scapegoats to pursue their ever-increasing dictatorship, like Putin does?

preceded Russia making the existing laws in the Federations a Federal law last summer. The subject, in Ukraine, then went into abeyance. It has not however died.

Instead of calling BS I suggest you start searching. Star membership here may help you with that.

Intent can be dealt with we do it all the time here. Actuality is a harder nut to crack especially since Russia's Doma passed the anti Gay law unanimously. Yep that's right not one nyet vote.

Could you explain how a country not passing an anti-gay law is worse than a country that did pass an anti-gay law? This is very odd and strange logic I am seeing here.

Thanks.

It did not seem to help him too much.

Unidentified people beat Svyatoslav Sheremet, head of Gay-Forum of Ukraine, in Kiev, May 20, 2012. Sheremet was attacked after meeting with members of the media to inform them that a scheduled gay parade was cancelled due to threats of violence from neo-Nazis and other hate groups.

It's perfectly legal to beat up gays in Russia for spreading gay propaganda.

I'm sure you will link to prove me wrong. This whole Russia vs. Ukraine thing on gays is very silly. Both cultures are very anti-gay. The idea that Ukraine is less anti-gay than Russia is just ridiculous.

Not much difference and basically 10 years before the U.S. Supreme Court legalized it in the U.S. I think we have to wait and see exactly what direction both countries are going in. Everything has become so politicized with a Russian bad, Ukraine good or visa versa. The reality is very gray for both countries.

Dozens of gay propaganda arrests already. Several deportations.

There is a difference. The question is whether association with the Eurozone will compel Ukraine to stop the BS and let people live the way they want. I think that's more likely to happen than an association with Russia which is fomenting this hatred.

I've seen you mention it a few times but I've seen no proof of it thus far. What are you basing this claim upon?

“One of the detained first came to Russia in 2001 as a Peace Corps volunteer. It is known that in 2002 Peace Corps activity was banned in connection with the carrying out of intelligence-subversive activities.”
“We are aware of reports that four U.S. citizens have been detained on work visa violations,” a State Department official said. “The Department of State takes its obligation to assist U.S. citizens abroad seriously, and stands ready to provide all appropriate consular services to U.S. citizens in need. Due to privacy considerations, we are unable to comment further.”


It states "American values" and is based upon something from 2001. I fail to see anything to do with homosexuality. American values could mean subversion against the government or even possibly spying. You've proven nothing here.

When the questions stopped, the four filmmakers were told to appear before a judge the next morning. They faced a fine, prison or deportation. “We were all very tense and the emotions came out,” van der Veen said. “You’re being questioned when you are gay and it’s something you can’t do anything about.” At the court, television cameras showed up to film and Dutch government representatives had become involved. But in the afternoon, they were stunned after being told, “You can all go. We will not take the case into consideration.” After their release and before the court could change its mind, the four quickly flew to St. Petersburg, where they stayed the night, then traveled back to the Netherlands the following day.



Time magazine seems to have placed the "fine, prison or deportation" in this article with no basis of proof.
Once again you have failed to prove the deportation claim Josh. Do you have anything of merit to back up your claim?


And here's something for ya. The US media skipped it during the olympics.

now you say they have been denied visa's for 3 years and tell me I'm in denial. You may want to take a look in the mirror. I called you out and you lost. This is reminiscent of our Crimea debate....which you also lost and still continue to lose.

How's that feel? Better I hope.

spike helmets. Also recognized the cheap fanny pack worn over the shoulder like it was an expensive European man-bag. And how considerate for wearing medical masks to protect us from their coughs & sneezes.

Putin is an out of control asshole crime boss & his gangs have a firm grip of the region. Stand by for the other 1000 shoes to drop.

Where right wing fascists swarm. Putin does not have any influence there.

Ukraine is of his own making. By carving out Crimea, the remaining population has been stripped of it's large bloc of Russian supporters. The remaining voters will never elect anyone leaning towards their East.

I would not, however, underestimate the influence that is brought to bear with spetsnaz (especially those assigned to GRU) as well as conventional tanks & artillery. Turning your back on Putin or judging that he lost a battle should not be the basis for inferring he has given up on the war.

keep pushing that agenda.

Of course both countries suffer from a mutual history of Soviet and Orthodox anti gay bigotry along with bigotry against all of the same minority groups the Nazis murdered. So yeah, similar in that they are both prisoners of the same propaganda universe. No wonder Ukraine seeks to exist that cultural dynamic.

is they don't want to risk upsetting the west at the moment. But you can bet that it will pass if things quite down. (Not the one they tabled in April, **another** one was left under consideration)

The government in Kyiv is right wing. It is amazing how people disconnect the dots when they are emotionally engaged to a cause.

Both the Pres and PM are anti-gay and are on record having said so.

So are the Fatherland party, Svoboda, and Right Sector.

although culturally, it's not as accepted as in the West, it is not illegal.
They also can have pride parades there without getting arrested.

And... if things calm down ( I hope) and they do join the EU... they will have to include protections for the LGBT community.
There aren't the same people in power now.

And... if things calm down...................I think you may find they've talked the EU out of. It was those who were in power that had considered it expedient to drop the issue. Its the new lot now negotiating with the EU : not the old lot.

They also can have pride parades there ........that's because they've not got federations with their own anti propaganda laws such as Russia already had prior to those laws becoming a federal law last July. That was the background to the 100% vote, bar one who abstained , in the Russian RADA - the members voted in accord with their own regional laws.

Apparently he's not as smart as he thinks he is.

How could they be if they support the shite Putin's trying to get away with?

remember when Limpballs was claiming that the Nazi party was a left wing organization because they had the word "socialist" in their name? Our country doesn't have the corner marketed when it comes to dumb yahoos who will buy this crap.

Ever know a bald guy who didn't have a lot of body hair? I haven't.

More like every shark that has ever existed....

Wow!

Jason Jones On Scott Lively's Claim That Gays Are More Savage Than Others
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/pv3fgo/gay-reichs

camps?

he just knows how to manipulate his country's brand of tea partiers.

The Daily Show did a great bit on him.
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/pv3fgo/gay-reichs

Also, this silly book he and some other guy put out back in the '90s.

The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pink_Swastika

Strange.

He probably posted other things on other threads.

It's just Putin finally repeating what state media has been saying for months now.

says the guy who is a closest gay Nazi ?

takes one to know , I guess

economic stagnation, unemployment, backaches, nose bleeds, bad movies, too many commercials on the teevee machine, heterosexual divorce, unwed mothers, dinosaurs going extinct, melting ice caps, rude waiters, bad tips, bad hair days, untrue spouses, Faux Nooz, Ford Motor recalls, etc., etc., etc. Everything, apparently, except getting legally married.

There's a LOT on the gay agenda, it seems.

Here is the video

Wow, that's news to me.

of racism or Russophobia. Same schtick the US religious right pulls, claiming persecution while being raging activists against the basic rights of others.

Some people must really think we are stupid.

I am constantly embarrassed for them, their little tantrums, the posturing and the lingo from the late 60's.

I just don't get it. Are they sad the USSR collapsed, or do they think the "West" is always wrong?
I do think that the Putinistas don't really care about human rights in this case, it's all about proving their liberal bona fides.

It is however, my opinion that that parade would most likely not be very open to gay floats which incidentally I am (I'm pro equal rights for everyone). Watch the parade...and you tell me...do you seriously think those people with red and black nazi colored flags and posters of Stephen Bandera would be welcoming of gay people. If you believe that...I have some excellent property on the moon to sell you.

No need for your moon property, unlike you, I am quite aware of the anti-gay sentiment in Ukraine and the Motherland. I don't need post after post of clips of parades, nor do I need post after post of articles about the hazards and homophobia taking place in Russia to know it is a fact. Do you?

the primary reason for hatred and lack of understanding of homosexual and alternative lifestyles in Russia and Ukraine is economic conditions that lead to breaks downs in education and living conditions. Corrupt oligarchs in both countries are a large part of the problem as they keep the societies from evolving. Where we disagree is in what is being done to sideline that corruption and create conditions that are more conducive to better wages, living and understanding.

I have been attempting to inform DU'ers since the Olympics that the best way to help LGBT people in Russia is by growing the economy and putting people to work while at the same time cutting crime and corruption. When those things take place there will be less ignorant people on the street conducting violent acts against other people. It's a simple solution that works in every country around the world.

The paradox is that there has been a strong effort at DU and in other parts of the US blogosphere to punish Russia and denigrate Russia....thereby actually having the reverse effect LGBT posters hope to achieve. Conditions have now worsened and a weaker economy is going to mean more assholes on the streets conducting ignorant violence instead of getting an education or going to a job. Anyway Ukraine has that same problem.....here's a very sad but poignant example. It's oligarchs once again causing misery.....

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/05/16/311845895/corruption-in-ukraine-robs-hiv-patients-of-crucial-medicine

Defending homophobia, making excuses for it ("hey! Look over there!&quot , or dismissing it are not progressive nor liberal values. The situation is Russia is deplorable for gay people; of that, there is NO question. Do not confuse speaking out against homophobia as anything other than what it is.

what your speaking makes sense. I prefer focusing on root cause symptoms rather than just screaming there is a problem. You fail to see that.

You fail to see that.

Last edited Sun May 18, 2014, 04:40 PM - Edit history (1)

based upon financial, societal and educational inequality, as is most ignorance and lack of understanding in human rights. Fixing economies will do a lot more for homosexual equality than someone screaming "that one must speak out". I am speaking out, just differently than they way you would prefer. Once again, I am addressing root cause issues.

Speaking out so loudly during the Olympics led to a surge in Putin's approval rating, people blaming LGBT individuals for Russiaphobia and an anti-American backlash globally....not in the USA of course as we are encapsulated from global criticism.....Essentially it did very little for helping LGBT people in Russia, sadly.

Once again, growing the Russian economy and putting people to work and giving people the money to pay for education will fix these ignorance based problems.

Homophobia may be a symptom of a lager problem, I have never said anything to contradict such a statement. Your claim you are "speaking out" against homophobia is so patently offensive as to be insulting in the very claim. You haven't spoken out with the exception of milquetoast "oh, that's bad" type of crap. Your posts are almost always like those ones in this thread, "what about so and so?!" or "did you know in the US/Uganda/Saudi Arabia/etc." That is not speaking out against homophobia. The truth is you haven't liked those of us who have spoken out against the Motherland's rank and rampant homophobia, insinuating or flat out calling us bigots (Russiophobes). You and those like you tried to shut us up or shame us and I am sure, to your surprise, it didn't work.

Speaking out so loudly during the Olympics led to a surge in Putin's approval rating,

people blaming LGBT individuals for Russiaphobia

and an anti-American backlash globally

Essentially it did very little for helping LGBT people in Russia, sadly.

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See where I'm going with this.

They can't come right out and say what they want because it would show them for who they really are, so they use code words just like... You know the group I'm talking about.

yet you prove constantly you're a diehard apologist for one of the worst homophobes on the planet.

Give me a break.

versus the responsible left that knew the USSR to be a totalitarian slave-state dictatorship.

It involved the horrors of the Vietnam War, the slow progress of Civil Rights etc that made some think that since the US was a moral disaster in those cases, that the Soviets, as the enemy, must be somehow better if not plain good.

Some of the Old Left is still around, some elements in Nation magazine, Project Censored, some elements at KPFA in LA. Sometimes Democracy Now and Thom Hartmann fall into this (and Hartmann gets income from the Kremlin for this show on RT so there's a financial motive too.)

Basically some people confuse appropriate criticism of the US with defense of and apology for Russia.

I've only seem some of that

Except it's them that are howling at the moon.

All about our infamous AmurriKKKan Tea Nazis.

and it does cover an American who inspires some of that rhetoric, so you could focus on that if you like. If it pains you to see criticism of the hateful and petty Putin.

Read the entire thread. It's all about Nazis galore..........

I didn't realize that you were the thread police. From now on, I guess that I should check with you before I post. Sorry for upsetting you so.

And about Scott Lively, and American hate monger who is one of Putin's muses of bigotry. It is not about Nazis, it is about libelous accusations of Nazism being hurled at one of the groups the Nazis murdered, by a guy who leads a country with laws similar to the early Nazi anti gay laws.
Sorry if the facts at hand ruffle your agenda.

before I really get scared.

100,000: Number of gay men arrested by the Nazis

50,000: Number of gay men officially sentenced

5,000 - 15,000: Number of gay men sent to concentration camps

Exact number unknown, possibly 9,000, or 60%: Number of gay men who died in Nazi concentration camps

Exact number unknown: Number of gay men who were re-arrested after being freed from concentration camps, because they were gay

How dare ANYONE, especially on this forum, spout the outright lies of hatemongering homophobe Scott Lively -- currently being indicted for crimes against humanity -- as some kind of defense for Putin or the persecution of gays in Russia. DON'T EVEN GO THERE.

I'm with ya, William. Keep up the good fight!

With that said there is plenty of help combating this bullshit.

It's practically his forte.

They suit each other to a tee, both disgusting evil homophobic assholes. Their only mission in life is to cause as much pain and suffering as they possibly can.

First comes Laws, second comes prisons, then comes police state in a fucked up Country!

They have one foot in there anyway. Let them finish there leap of hate.

I just cannot stop laughing!!!

But Vladimir will expose them!!!!

Happy Birthday to you!

Thank you!

That from someone that is not quite old enough to be you mother~

Not to hijack Williams thread...