he's spying on the soviets

Lots of parallels -- high security clearance, Oswald worked in surveillance (U2 flights), the soviets intially rejected both Oswald and Snowden's much publicized entries. They even look somewhat similar.

Exposing the most pervasive police state since the stazi and changing the course of history might have that effect.

The question is....is the grandeur an illusion or reality.

What have you done lately?

Police state means governmental repression and control over the entire population and squelching of individual liberty.

As in dictatorships.


Nice try to deflect though. But, hey move to China or Russia since they do the freedom thing so much better than we do.

buying the "worse than North Korea and Russia" crapola to which I responded.

It's the difference between intelligent dissent and intellectually lazy anti-Americanism .

I'll let ya know.

Peace out!

I'll take "Stupid shit people who believe everything they read at rt.com say for $800, Alex."

US doesn't even win the Western Hemisphere--the USG wishes they had a domestic spy network like the Castros enjoy.

Denial is so powerful, but it only makes things worse.

Speaking of Cuba (a very lucky country to have avoided the death-squad governments imposed by the U.S. around the region), there's a Syrian prisoner there, held 12 years without charges. He wants desperately to die and is currently being force-fed. He is an American prisoner at Guantanamo.

On what do you base that sweeping proclamation?

PS - it was "Stasi".

Last edited Tue May 27, 2014, 09:29 PM - Edit history (1)

Good work, comrade!

The army suggests he never completed training period...

While Snowden talks about giving talks to the CIA while working for the DIA all he is referring to is IT & commo, nothing Intel related. From the article "Defense Intelligence Agency confirmed to NBC News that Snowden, as a contractor, had spoken at three of their conferences. Two intelligence sources tell NBC that Snowden worked for the CIA at an overseas station in IT and communications."

This explains why he had to steal someone's password to gain restricted access. The guy was there to build networks.

most likely scenario.

get back here in time to be Papa Paul's running mate in 2016!

I don't know...isn't he busy keeping Czar Putin's lap warm?!?

That was my impression watching Snowden in the interview

but now I'm beginning to wonder if he's some kind of test-tube patsy or who the hell knows what. Spies don't casually admit to TV hosts that they're spies.

'cause I want to see that episode.

If you want to see it just search Bill Maher Snowden.....even DU shows up at the top!

security of the authoritative state of Gen Clapper and the Carlyle Group.

In bigoted, ultra-nationalist, Russia.

CIA? Maybe I dont drink the "right" cool aid. Why would liberals accept a NSA/CIA/FBI security state? They dont. Only the LINO's do.

Snowden did not struggle for freedom and liberty, nor is the United States an authoritarian state. From Snowden's own writings he was a libertarian. Unless you are too, it is a huge jump to argue that freedom and liberty are at risk because phone records (not content) were retained in a database by the government. The key was ALWAYS controlling who and under what circumstances the data could be pulled and analyzed.

As to saving it, if you were asked to figure out what information to collect that would let you investigate who was connected to someone identified as a terrorist, wouldn't this be on your list? The key is to prevent abuse.

According to the Washington Post, NSA had four main programs, two for metadata, two for content of domestic and international calls (anything going through the wires, so to speak.)

All the attention has been on the metadata programs because that was the portion of the leaks that the Obama administration has acknowledged to be true.

However, pursuant to Thomas Drake's similar leaks (and I don't hear you guys accusing him of being a traitor, even though he was a high level NSA officer who was acquitted in federal court), we knew about it years ago, and discussed the issue here on DU years ago, pursuant to articles in Harpers, NYT, etc. about the earlier leaks. Remember the NSA data centers they are building capable of storing everything, petabytes of data? That was in Harpers years ago. Now it's been confirmed. At the time they could only store everything for up to two days' of voice and email content. That's changed however.

to Russia.

And how is this supposed to help his case?

Wanted to go to CUBA, then Latin America......

It has become surreal to watch so - called progressives actually go after a whistleblower, rather than those in which the whistle was blown on.

It's like reading comments in freeperville.

Oh well, keep fighting the good fight! Personally, I think some might be nervous about the upcoming release of who has been surveilled. After all the official line is that this surveillance is only for the purposes of finding "Terraists!"

One wonders if Russell Tice's claims will find some support regarding the targeting of a certain freshman senator from Illinois who suddenly and inexplicably flip-flopped on domestic surveillance a few years back...

because many have not taken time to read the Guardian and other articles about Snowden to follow the whole event.

And maybe they missed the "PBS Frontline" Parts I and II about whistleblowers who tried to get the surveillance on US Citizens out there for years under Bush which then follows Snowden and Greenwald breaking the story and Part II where they show the complicity of Silicon Valley.

The series is three hours long and well worth the watch...but either some didn't want to watch, couldn't watch for whatever connection reasons or wanted to avoid it all to pre-judge.

president has ever controlled.

It was the first big giant step to setting up Jeb2016. Get the media and the public to declare that Obama is no different than Bush - makes Bush look better, especially since Obama's current WH will bear the brunt of the backlash.

The original article about him said he had diplomatic cover in Geneva before "leaving" the CIA and getting a job as a contractor for the NSA.

'worked' for just happened to be a firm loyal to BushInc.

Long time reader on here, first time poster....Wanted to say, I understand why he has come forward on some of these things you is saying..but some things he is stating shouldnt be said. Seriously, he shouldnt come out and tell us he was a spy for a few agencies...thats horrible on his part, and it realy doesnt effect anyone. He just needs to fade away in the dusk, he is trying to keep his name in the news, waiting for that big payday for a book or movie...of course, this is all just my opinion..sorry for any m/s, im at work, trying to type fast

Funny thing is he can be lying through his teeth about the CIA, NAS, and all this other crap, and who's going to counter his claims...Of course the CIA will deny he was a spy for them, so his illusions of greatness can remain what they are..... ramblings.

Link here and Part I is at the Website. Both are well worth the watch so that you can be more informed about what exactly Snowden Whistleblew and others before him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024993287

...as a "spy". All from his cushy hideaway in Moscow.

Unless he's a double agent, he's a traitor. And he basically has now admitted it.

All of our founders would have been held for treason had they lost the war. As citizens, it is our responsibility to throw off a despotic government. I think it is good enough at this point to made aware of our government's abuses, and I'm glad Snowden could do so.

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

One doesn't "throw off a despotic government" (which ours most certainly is NOT!) by plotting and dealing with another despotic government.

So, in place of this so-called "despotic government" that you wish to "throw off", with what do you choose to replace it?

I suggest you spend a little more time surfing Webster's website instead of Wikipedia.

Despotism surely includes the U.S. government, which is an oligarchy.

Despotism is a form of government in which a single entity rules with absolute power. That entity may be an individual, as in an autocracy, or it may be a group,[1] as in an oligarchy. The word despotism means to "rule in the fashion of a despot" and does not necessarily require a singular "despot", an individual.

And just who might that "single entity" be?

In case you're interested (doubtful), the reason that I use the Canadian flag as my avatar is in tribute to my Canadian born mother.

I was born in Brooklyn New York, and have lived in the United States all of my life.

So, with all due respect, you can just go fuck yourself!

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

- Declaration of Independence

"Despotism is a form of government in which a single entity rules with absolute power. That entity may be an individual, as in an autocracy, or it may be a group, as in an oligarchy. The word despotism means to "rule in the fashion of a despot" and does not necessarily require a singular "despot", an individual."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotism

Rather than get bogged down with definitions, if a government has enough of the attributes of a despotism or oligarchy, e.g., "long train of abuses and usurpations," then for all intents and purposes they are the same. If these "abuses and usurpations" are unconstitutional or don't reflect the will of the people by a large extent, then maybe it is our duty to have regime change as our founders said was a duty, peacefully I hope. Snowden has allowed a dialogue to begin in some of the areas concerning fundamental rights of privacy guaranteed by the constitution.

I only asked about Canada/U.S., since I wanted to make sure we weren't cross talking about the issue.

his "official" story has a lot more credibility as a know-nothing low-level outsider IT contractor who made a series of shocking discoveries while testing the network for security weaknesses...

Now that he brought up the 'spy' word, he's opened himself up to a world of difficult questions...

I don't really need to hear more, frankly.

Snowden was NOT a spy. He was just give a cover, a SOP for employees of the agency. Unless he trained at the Farm, he was just another federal employee. Now he is just sounding like the idiot that he is. An arrogant idiot.

during the start of his career in surveillance and covert action.

If Snowden is an "idiot" and not a spook how did he work:

And he exaggerated - his salary was more like $110k a year. For DC, that's not much.