Court upholds limits on religious messages in schools
Source: SF Chronicle
The U.S. Supreme Court left intact Monday two rulings by the federal appeals court in San Francisco that limit the ability of teachers and charter schools to spread religious messages in the classroom.
In one case, the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a San Diego County school district's orders to a high school math teacher to remove large banners declaring "In God We Trust" and "God Shed His Grace on Thee."
Those inscriptions and others that longtime teacher Bradley Johnson displayed on his classroom wall amounted to a statement of religious views that the Poway Unified School District was entitled to disavow, the appeals court said in a 3-0 ruling in September.
Johnson said he had hung the same banners since 1982 and described their messages as patriotic. He accused the district of discriminating against Christians by allowing another teacher to display a poster with the lyrics to John Lennon's song "Imagine," which includes a line about imagining no religion.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/26/BAMF1NQBE3.DTL
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Promoting ONE religion? Christianity.
... had that happen, too. I ripped in half and dropped the two pieces on the floor in front of them. They weren't happy.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts).... actually believe such fairy tales.
eppur_se_muova
(36,266 posts)Riftaxe
(2,693 posts)While christianity is a rather boring religion, (pure lack of imagination when you can have a complete pantheon).
I highly doubt many people would cluster it into a monolith, especially with so many different sects.
Besides, handing out books is hardly a crime yet...
Would you make handing out books a crime?
Bandit
(21,475 posts)Whether the Government ignoring the constitution is a crime or not I am not sure but it certainly is not constitutional...Our schools are an arm of the Government afterall..
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)Unless, of course, they will allow hanging pro-evolution signs in their churches.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)that was a facsimile of the rear of a US $$$ bill ?
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Those words were not placed on our currency until 1956. Does that tell you anything? It tells me that the founding fathers meant to exclude the promotion of any religion by government when this country was founded.
The second point I would make, is that those words "in God we trust" do not, I repeat, do not specify whose god we trust in.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)(added in 1954 - what the heck was going on in the 50's anyway?)
I agree that "in God we trust" doesn't specify a specific God. Personally I trust in Eris (I assume it includes Goddesses).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eris_%28mythology%29
http://www.ology.org/principia/
Joseph8th
(228 posts)krkaufman
(13,435 posts)> (added in 1954 - what the heck was going on in the 50's anyway?)
that was in jest, right?
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)I think that a bit of consistency would be helpful. Don't you think it will confuse the students to see that motto on their money then to be told it can't be displayed in their classroom? And yes, it has only been on our currency since 1956, but the banner in that classroom hasn't been there forever either. And yes "those words "in God we trust" ... do not specify whose God we trust in." But wouldn't that apply just as much to the teacher's banner as anything else? His banner did not say "Christian God" it just said "God."
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)Including symbols of the Masons and pictures of dead white men and such. I certainly agree that the "under god" etc. should go from the money, but that's another issue. The point is, the teacher didn't post pyramids with eyes on the wall, or pictures of presidents. He posted big banners with "in god we trust" etc. This means he wanted kids to remember "god" not George Washington or that they should hold to the vows of being a Mason.
Do we understand? It's not a matter of confusing kids, it's a matter of this man using the words on the currency to get across a religious message because he didn't post the currency, he posted only one part of the words on that currency that got across his particular, bias message. And he thought he was being oh-so-clever and getting away with indoctrinating kids to believe in god because he thought he could just say, "hey, it's on the money!" Hey, post the money then and let the kids decide if they're interested in learning more about being a Mason or a president...or believing in god. Don't just post what YOU want them to believe. Yes?
He needs to keep what HE wants kids to believe (i.e. what religious faith he wants them to have) out of the classroom. And by the way, I agree that the other teacher should NOT have the words to "Imagine" on the wall either. That's also trying to indoctrinate the kids toward a particular religious belief system. Religious belief systems are for parents to teach their kids; schools are to teach facts. The state and those working for the state don't get to teach kids what god or lack-of-god they ought to believe in.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)So let's get it OFF THE MONEY and out of the Pledge of Allegiance.... NOW!
Joseph8th
(228 posts)... some consistence WOULD be nice. Let's remove it from money, too.
krkaufman
(13,435 posts)We *should* be consistent, and so the phrase needs to be removed from the currency, as well -- since the phrase takes a pro-deity/pro-religion stance and diminishes those members of society with a different view (atheists, agnostics, ...)
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)With regards to your second point, why do "we" have to believe in any God(s) at all? Am I, as an Atheist, excluded from the "we" that is this nation?
krkaufman
(13,435 posts)... on the currency explicitly segments atheists and agnostics as not part of "us." I'm surprised no one has successfully challenged their inclusion by the Treasury.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)SATIRical
(261 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Maybe it's because $10 bills aren't teaching tools and aren't presented as though they're a central lesson. Plus, having the words on currency does violate the Constitution, though not as much as the banner at school. I wish we could get rid of it.
Ian David
(69,059 posts)If it had been just ONE statement, there probably wouldn't have been a big complaint.
But the dude was doing the equivalent of waving his dick around in everyone's face.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)They are quite the opposite.