Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 06:59 PM Jun 2014

More than 400 US military drones crashed in past 13 years, report says

Source: Guardian

More than 400 large US military drones have crashed around the world in the past 13 years, a Washington Post investigation has found.

The Post obtained documents detailing accidents including collisions with homes, farms, runways, roads, waterways and even an air force transport plane in midair. Several drones vanished while at cruising altitude and were lost.

In April, an army drone crashed next to an elementary-school playground in Pennsylvania; in 2012 an unmanned navy surveillance aircraft nose-dived and ignited a wildfire in Maryland.

Of the 418 major drone crashes since September 2001 that the newspaper identified, about half happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and nearly a quarter were in the US. Almost 200 of the crashes were classed by the military as “class A”, meaning they destroyed the aircraft or caused at least $2m-worth of damage, though no loss of life was attributed to the accidents. Problems included pilot error, mechanical failure and communications challenges.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/21/400-us-military-drones-crashed-13-years

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

MADem

(135,425 posts)
1. WE crashed a lot more than that when we were figuring out how to make the damn things work....
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 07:16 PM
Jun 2014

And the USAF was saying "Over our dead BODIES will we have anything to do with those stupid things...you need a PILOT for this kind of work!!!!!!!!"

Yeah, you need a pilot, paid a third what a commissioned pilot is paid, sitting in a container in a desert half a world away....

If we've crashed hundreds, imagine how many the Chinese and Russians have crashed? They've got robust programs themselves, they're just not quite so advertised as ours.

 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
3. And they want to fly these things over us?
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 07:54 PM
Jun 2014

That's like 3 crashes a month. Not a great track record.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
10. Why not?
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:10 PM
Jun 2014

USians seem to have no problems about flying Predator drones all across the world, even with no explicit "war" declared (except the ubiquitous "War on Terror" that excuses all), and these things fire Hellfire Missiles, and we know often in "double-tap" operations deliberately styled to wipe out "collateral" targets. So if USians have no problem with that, why should USians have a problem if the same wonderful 21st C. technology is used directly against them, against their own families?

Put it another way: if USians, through "bipartisan" efforts, feel righteous about utterly lawless and totally terrorist military operations throughout the world, against targets who can't conceivably be construed as "existential threats to the USA", shouldn't they feel equally righteous about those identical techniques being used in continental USA?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
12. Want to? They're already doing it. Lots of non-DOD agencies are running the things.
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 06:44 AM
Jun 2014

We are WAY past the foot-stomping/outrage point on this matter. It's a done deal.

I remember a "drone program" going back to the immediate post-Vietnam years and plenty of those didn't go anywhere, they were glorified toys that you see in the hobby aisle.

It's unclear from the article how many of these things crashed in the early stages, how many were shot down, etc.

In any event, the horse has left the barn, has gamboled in the fields of sweet hay, and taken off across the countryside:

http://rmgsc.cr.usgs.gov/UAS/

The goal of the U.S. Geological Survey's (USGS) National Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Project Office is to support the integration of UAS technology into the process employed by USGS scientists to support informed decision making across the Department of the Interior. This integration will directly benefit the nation by creating the opportunity for USGS and our partners to gain access to an increased level of persistent monitoring of earth surface processes (forest health conditions, monitoring wildfires, earthquake zones, invasive species, etc.) in areas that have been difficult or nearly impossible to obtain information before. Each of the Bureaus in the Department is eagerly investing in the investigation of UAS to support their mandated missions. The USGS is working closely with partners from NOAA, DoD, DHS, NASA and academia to apply UAS technology in support of our specific and overlapping missions. The Dept. of the Interior has acquired Raven and T-Hawk small UAS systems (valued at nearly $15M) from the Department of Defense to conduct proof-of-concept projects; initiate UAS operator training; submit numerous Certificate of Authorization (COA) requests to the Federal Aviation Administration. The USGS has been nominated to serve as the DOI - Center of Excellence for Scientific Investigations by the DOI Office of Aviation Safety (OAS). The USGS UAS Project Office staff is recognized as subject matter experts not only for DOI but also internationally.


http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/05/05/montgomery-county-fire-department-using-drones/

LANHAM, Md. (WNEW) — The Montgomery County Fire and Rescue Department has invested in a new tool that will help it better fulfill its mission of public safety — three Unmanned Aircraft Systems, better known as drones.
“I think that this is going save lives, and it’s also going to save property loss, and it’s going to save us time,” Montgomery County Fire Department assistant chief Mike Clemens told WNEW’s John Domen, who got an exclusive look at the new machines. “It is exciting because it’s another element to make us better.”
Fire officials believe the reconnaissance the drone can provide while a fire is burning will be invaluable.
“Something like this can hover at the height of a building, about 25-30 feet above it,” Clemens said.
The high-definition camera mounted on board is capable of sending still shots and video to crews on the ground, so they don’t have to guess where to target the blaze. This can be especially helpful in highrise building fires.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/08/drone-list-domestic-police-law-enforcement-surveillance_n_2647530.html

Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), commonly known as drones, may be coming to a police department near you.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has released an updated drone authorization list as a result of a Freedom of Information Act request made by the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), a non-profit organization for digital civil liberties.

The new list reveals 81 entities that have applied for permission to fly drones in U.S. airspace, including a number of government agencies and universities. Seventeen police departments and sheriff's offices across the country have also filed, among them are stations in Little Rock, Ark., Gadsden, Ala., Miami, Fla., Ogden, Utah, and Seattle, Wash.

Universities that can be found on the list include California State University, Cornell University, Kansas State University and Penn State University, among others. In addition, the Indian Tribal office in California, has made a request to be allowed to fly UAVs....

Helen Borg

(3,963 posts)
14. It won't be long until...
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 02:07 PM
Jun 2014

Organized crime will start running these, or a special version of them. No one will have to hire assassins anymore. It's coming...

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
4. K&R
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 08:08 PM
Jun 2014
''They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening. By lack of understanding they remained sane.

In our own day they are not fighting against one another at all. The war is waged by each ruling group against its own subjects, and the object of the war is not to make or prevent conquests of territory, but to keep the structure of society intact.

The primary aim of modern warfare is to use up the products of the machine without raising the general standard of living.''


~George Orwell, 1984
 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
9. For a Predator about $4 million
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 09:54 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Sun Jun 22, 2014, 11:59 AM - Edit history (1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator

And not all drones are as expensive as a Predator, the smaller ones used by the Army & Marines are much cheaper.

Keep in mind the unit cost of a F-16 is almost $19 million and real time tactical reconnaissance would require a manned aircraft if not for drones, although the crash rate would be likely be lower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon

jmowreader

(50,557 posts)
11. The crash rate is FAR lower
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 03:49 AM
Jun 2014

OV-1 Mohawks (generally fitted with three sensors - a radar that tracked moving targets, a camera and an infrared sensor) very rarely crashed (sometimes they blew the fuck up 300 feet off the end of the runway or shut down when they were doing a run-up test, but if you could manage to get the thing away from the airfield they very rarely crashed), and no Guardrail (a Beechcraft King Air with signals intelligence intercept equipment in it) or Quickfix (a helicopter with a direction finding head and a jammer) has ever crashed.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
13. We're talking about overhead reconnisance
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:08 PM
Jun 2014

Something the Guardrail and Quickfix don't do. Absent drones tactical reconnissance would be taken over by F-16's or F-15's with camera pods underneath and yes the crash rate will be lower with manned aircraft.

We have lost a Guardrail in Afghanistan, almost certainly pilot error:
http://www.examiner.com/article/mc-12-crash-kills-3-americans-crash-raises-more-questions-than-answers

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)
6. My old intel unit was part of that tally while I was assigned to it, I'm sure
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 09:23 PM
Jun 2014

We operated over southern Iraq during Operation Southern Watch, enforcing the UN imposed no fly zone when I first got there.

We'd lose a Predator now and then.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
15. Thank Goodness someone is finally reporting on this! Our Taxpayer Dollars at Work
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 06:15 PM
Jun 2014

DRONES OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION...!

Good for our Homeland (should we say HEIL?) Use and for dealing with Pesky People in Other Countries.......

Woo Hoo...Wish I had the damned companies in my 401-K. There's FUTURE PROFIT IN "Them Drones"...good for 'MURCA and GOOD FOR WALL STREET! We are foolish if we don't include WMD in our Portfolios... After all "Savings Accounts" for the PEOPLE are so "20th Century."

Sorry...not in a good mood tonight. 's Probably went OTT...with my rant.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»More than 400 US military...