This issue will hit the SCOTUS at some point

In the oral arguments about DOMA and Prop 8 Sotamayor suggested that perhaps the issue of marriage equality needed to "percolate" a bit more before SCOTUS rendered a broad ruling like say Brown v. Board of Education.

I think it has percolated enough now. Polls show that ruling against equality is not in line with public opinion any longer. Thoughtful jurists at all levels are now striking down these discriminatory laws.

It's usually the 9th Circuit out in the PNW and CA that hands down this sort of ruling first. To have it handed down by a circuit that covers UT, OK, WY, KS, and NM is really a stunning defeat to the anti-equality folks. That's real "conservative" territory.

I guess they just found it really difficult to uphold such blatantly discriminatory laws in light of the DOMA decision. Why the Loving v. VA decision wasn't enough to invalidate these laws is beyond me.

K&R

To anyone that know's all the lyrics, I fell it is vary apt in more ways that one (and needless to say it pays tribute to an icon).

You are on the losing side of an issue, AGAIN.

No one can Legislate based on Hate.

For our out-of-state married couples "In light of Windsor, we agree with the multiple district courts that have held that the fundamental right to marry necessarily includes the right to remain married." at P. 32.

For all same-sex couples "The drafters of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments “knew times can blind us to
certain truths and later generations can see that laws once thought necessary and proper in
fact serve only to oppress. As the Constitution endures, persons in every generation can
invoke its principles in their own search for greater freedom.” Id. at 579. A generation
ago, recognition of the fundamental right to marry as applying to persons of the same sex
might have been unimaginable. A generation ago, the declaration by gay and lesbian
couples of what may have been in their hearts would have had to remain unspoken. Not
until contemporary times have laws stigmatizing or even criminalizing gay men and
women been felled, allowing their relationships to surface to an open society. As the district court eloquently explained, “it is not the Constitution that has changed, but the
knowledge of what it means to be gay or lesbian.” Kitchen, 961 F. Supp. 2d at 1203.
Consistent with our constitutional tradition of recognizing the liberty of those previously
excluded, we conclude that plaintiffs possess a fundamental right to marry and to have
their marriages recognized." at P.41-42, emphasis added.

"In summary, we hold that under the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of
the United States Constitution, those who wish to marry a person of the same sex are
entitled to exercise the same fundamental right as is recognized for persons who wish to
marry a person of the opposite sex, and that Amendment 3 and similar statutory
enactments do not withstand constitutional scrutiny." at P. 65.

nationwide, with the USSC. I really would.

I have been waiting so long for this. I will never forget attending a liberal arts private college and immediately noticing (for the first time in my life) that it was the bigots that were socially isolated and being like....shit....this is bad ass! Grow up as a UU in the 80's so this specific form of equality has always been a big issue for me. If you know anything about UU's, we have always performed weddings for everyone, so to see the rest of the country "coming of age" is quite nice-to say the least. It was so weird growing up around bigots in the 80's who had such an animalistic hatred homosexuals.

the SCOTUS will ban gay marriage 5-4. Kennedy is the swing and not reliable.

It will probably be a 5-4 decision but the other way.

but I am not sanguine about it.

I find it really hard to envision the Supreme Court ruling to ban it. I'm not a lawyer, but that's just my personal opinion.

See Bush v. Gore.

Now joined by Alito and Roberts.

It need only be finalized. The Supre Court will affirm that marriage bans are unconstitutional when it takes a case, possibly this one.

I see them doing that before actually taking a case and making a decision.

But, I think they would want to not leave it lingering.

a Catholic, as swing. It is by no means a slam dunk. The best we can hope for is the SCOTUS refusing to review the case (unlikely) which would allow the lower court rulings to stand. If the case is reviewed, it is a coin toss.

has come down in support of marriage equality. Kennedy is not going to about face. He is not an idiot. He knew exactly what he was writing.

The best we can hope for is for the 10th Circuit case to be quickly taken up by the Court and settle the issue. It is a slam dunk with this Court. Better now than with an unknown make-up in a few more years.

have been burned by the justice system before, and so we can be a cynical, pessimistic group. I'm not sure why I'm NOT more pessimistic, but I guess that's just the way I was born.

until Cochran walked right in and won.

The conservative wing of the SCOTUS, which includes Kennedy, has shown they are ideological and can be bought (usually via jobs for their progeny and spouses).

Assume nothing, though I would be very happy to be wrong on this matter.

uncertainties as elections. If this issue were one which Kennedy could be "bought" on, he would have already been bought. If his conservative ideology would prevent him from endorsing marriage equality, he wouldn't have authored Windsor.

You will be happily wrong on this.

If the court strikes the lower court, it all goes back to state-by-state law.

Being a pessimist means no nasty surprises.

I understand being guarded. But, this is only moving in one direction.

I assume nothing.

Not sure why your pushing the meme that you are pushing, but go for it!

Why not just be happy with what has happened so far & move on.

Is this going to affect your happiness in anyway?

I really don't get what you are doing here.

But then maybe I do.

the Scalia 5 pissed on about 3 decades worth of legal precedent, including their own.

I am "pushing" nothing, I am simply stating that I do not trust the court to behave in a rational fashion. Their is ample evidence to support this distrust. That is my personal opinion, nothing more. I hope to be wrong. I wanted to be wrong about the "Patriot Act", but I wasn't. I wanted to be wrong on how badly Iraq/Afghanistan would turn out, but I wasn't. I wanted to be wrong about the SCOTUS' continued legalizing the buying and selling of the U.S. legal system, but so far...

Bad bet.

Since you have a stellar record & all.

I hope to be wrong. But I have seen enough to know that the Right is not going to go quietly and "spite" is what they do best. I started paying to the SCOTUS and its right-wing treachery back in the 90's.

Ever heard of Herrera v. Collins?

That was a 1993 decision (6-3) that "actual innocence" was not a valid reason not to execute some one.

The logic went like this: If you have been found "factually" guilty by a court, you ARE guilty. Therefore even if new evidence arises at a later date that proves your innocence, you may not be granted habeus relief unless you can show the original trial to have been Constitutionally defective.

Any court capable of that kind of thinking is capable of anything (and the court is WAY more conservative now).

Just saying. Now I'm done with you.

I can sleep soundly knowing you are "done with" me.

Here's a great big KICK!

That disgusting pig of a human being, Antonin Scalia, while dissenting and trying to destroy basic human rights for Gay people based on his intolerant hatred of anyone different from him, paved the way for all this with a comment in his dissent.

http://www.damemagazine.com/2014/02/19/has-scalia-inadvertently-paved-way-marriage-equality


What a real disgusting pig this guy is, you should read some of the puke that has come out of his mouth over the years.

Poetic justice at it's best (pun intended).

Scalia deserves every bit of this.

Already Indiana's AG is saying he is going to appeal. For what reason? Isn't it clear that these bans are unconstitutional? They are FAILING everywhere. Instead of throwing more money down an endless black hole of court appeals, concede defeat on this issue and let ALL people marry whomever the love, and let them enjoy the fruits of all civil rights that the rest of us enjoy.

Enough with making gays second class citizens, already!

It's going to happen. I can feel it William, I really can. Ha! You can take that to the bank. I knew Obama was going to win when everyone else was wringing their hands. I sensed it, there was a rumbling that was audible. Call it woman's intuition.

But it sucks that the whole thing is going to be put on hold again for SCOTUS to decide. That means probably another year or more. I hope for the sake of those who want to get married it is settled soon.

...... there are no scientific, medical, financial or even social objections these days to "the gay".

Objections to things homosexual only come from one source: RELIGION


And, sorry religious folks, but you do not get to codify your religious doctrines and beliefs into US law.