Breaking: Fresh Israel-Gaza Ceasefire agreed to in Egypt; to take effect 0400 GMT Friday
Source: BBC News
Israel-Gaza ceasefire deal 'reached'
A comprehensive ceasefire agreement has been reached between Israel and Gaza, an Israeli official has told the BBC.
The ceasefire is due to take effect on Friday at 06:00 local time (04:00 GMT).
Earlier, Palestinian militants fired three mortars from Gaza at Israel during a brief humanitarian ceasefire, Israeli security forces say.
Some 227 Palestinians have died since the current crisis began on 8 July. Militant rockets have killed one Israeli.
Israel launched its military operation on 8 July with the stated objective of halting Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel.
However, the United Nations says most of those killed in Gaza have been civilians.
Israel accuses Hamas of hiding its military infrastructure within the civilian population.
Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28344637
Orrex
(63,224 posts)Rather than the Palestinian children slain on the beach by the Israeli navy.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)This time so that Israel won't have to protect itself like yesterday.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)Killing those kids is a great way to keep Israel safe.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Israel keeps trying, Hamas will do what?
Orrex
(63,224 posts)No matter what Hamas does, it's cast as the villain. No matter what Israel does, it's cast as the victim.
IDF kills 200 civilians? It's Hamas' fault, obviously.
Israel navy kills Palestinian children? It's Hamas' fault, obviously.
rdking647
(5,113 posts)like they always do
if you fire missiles you should expect retaliation
Orrex
(63,224 posts)Even if it were literally true, saying "Hamas started it" is a grossly simplistic reaction to a decades-long conflict. Even if "Hamas started it," does that mean Israel gets to kill as many Palestinian civilians as it wants with no fear of reprisal or censure? Must be nice.
Being the "first victim" doesn't grant you a blank check to respond with as much carnage as you can manage.
bossy22
(3,547 posts)They show considerable restraint in their use of force. But we must realize that the IDFs primary goal is the protection of Israel. They will try to limit civilian casualties as much as possible but their primary goal is what is most important. This is as it should be. Any democratic government should put the protection of its own citizens ahead of others.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)And their primary goal is secondary to the reality of their execution.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)isn't the proper action, if you know well-enough they're hiding their launch sites in residential areas to be able to target those sites, to engage in police actions...ideally in cooperation with non-Hamas Palestinian authorities? Unilaterally only if necessary.
It's not just to Israel's advantage to arrest and take down Hamas, it's also to the advantage of the legitimate Palestinian Authority. Remember, it's the PA, headed by Abbas and controlled by Fatah, that has expressed desires to return to talks, talks that Hamas continues to subvert from occurring by launching offenses.
For a comparative, look to N. Ireland. It's not unlike the continuing efforts of the R-IRA (Real IRA) to undermine the Belfast Accord and disrupt the ongoing peace process...note that it's not the British Army that combat and police R-IRA. It's the Garda and/or PSNI, depending which side of the border they're on. The police. They're treated as terrorists and subject to law-enforcement. The R-IRA bomb buildings or shoot police...and the police investigate, make arrests and incarcerate. Such police actions are generally uncontroversial; everybody wants peace and order maintained, they want the people trying to return "the troubles" arrested regardless of which side they purport to represent. People have bought into the political process because the accord took militarism off the table for both sides...the people who continue to engage militarily, regardless of faction, are viewed as criminals rather than militants.
We need to work towards a "Belfast" for I/P before we can address the territorial issues or anything else. Terrorists and settlers need to be treated as what they are: criminals. If the PA or Hamas (since Hamas wants to be treated as a legitimate political entity, then they have responsibilities therein) won't arrest those who seek to disrupt the peace process, then there has been no progress. If Israel will not cede massive military response when small disruptive cells seek to derail the peace, then there has been no progress. If Israel is unwilling to arrest settlers seeking to provoke a response by stealing Palestinian lands, then there has been no progress. Policing, not militarism, is the solution in need.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)And it's not even denied.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)They killed 3 Isreali teens a few weeks ago. Israeli are being so patient. I give them so much credit.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)much anymore. It's the security of empire. I could show you pictures, but to what end? The madness will never stop until Israel has the Pals dead or enslaved. I don't know how it will come but I have to believe we are on the eve of destruction.
rdking647
(5,113 posts)hams started it. like they always do
i dont blame israel at all
if you shoot at my house im going to fire back until you are unable to shoot at me
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)employ a bully to help you, you will become my enemy; and in the end I will do anything in my power to defeat you or, at least, die free instead of being enslaved by you. Capish? I support Palistine in word, money and deed; and will until they no longer exist or a friend to the North wipes out their enemy.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)As in destroyed?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)children with sophisticated Navy vessels to atone for their actions. So does much of the world.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)are you advocating the destruction of Israel?
You know who else said Israel needs to be wiped off the map? Iran. Are you in agreement with Iran?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)where you change the text of my answer to make the followup question(s) more provocative.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)employ a bully to help you, you will become my enemy; and in the end I will do anything in my power to defeat you or, at least, die free instead of being enslaved by you. Capish? I support Palistine in word, money and deed; and will until they no longer exist or a friend to the North wipes out their enemy.
You said that, so it's safe to conclude that you want Israel wiped off the map?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)"friend", which sure isn't me.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)did to precipitate such action. If Isreal begins an ethnic cleansing then BRICS would have to convene and decide. I would closely follow the discussions.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)but you said that you would support a friend from the North wiping out Israel.
So, how are we to interpret that?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)that? What? Who do you think is pushing the PALS from place to place and has been for decades? Israel is weeding them out bit by bit.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)that they will never accept an Israeli state? Why, that would be the terror org Hamas.
Who has said time and time again that they won't be satisfied until all the jews in Israel are driven into the sea and the Israeli state is destroyed? Why, that would be the terror org Hamas.
Who has constantly fired rocket into Israel? Why, that would be the terror org Hamas.
Who rejected the cease fire out of hand and continued to fire rockets into Israel despite Israel accepting the cease fire? Why, that would be the terror org Hamas.
Shall I keep going?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)the Palestinians from virtual end of freedom and probably life.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)The org. defending Palestine?
The same terror org that hides among civilians?
The same terror org that sets up launching positions in civilian areas?
The same terror org that uses civilians as human shields?
The same terror org that uses dead civilians for propaganda purposes?
Those are your heroes?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)little kids on the beach with a Navy vessel designed to take down buildings. I'll suppress any use of moronic icons. You're the one who used the word "heroes" not me--
IronGate
(2,186 posts)those 4 youths would still be alive if the terror org Hamas had accepted the cease fire like Israel did.
Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)that means the 4 youths became valid targets to fire at?
IronGate
(2,186 posts)No, you don't
Here's the likely scenario:
Israel received intelligence that the terror org Hamas was firing rockets at Israel from that area and targeted the area, those youths just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The terror org Hamas is well known for using civilian areas to set up firing positions for their rockets, also using civilians as human shields.
The terror org Hamas are responsible for those youths deaths by not accepting the cease fire and continuing to fire into Israel, even after Israel honored the cease fire by suspending combat ops.
Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)You can't really blame a group for something another group does even if they are enemies
If the two of us are enemies and i refuse to agree to a cease fire, its not my fault if you heard some information stating I'm in a house and you fire at it killing the people living there(after i had already left). The one who pulled the trigger was you and i don't think many would buy your reasoning of 'but i was told BBW was there so its his fault for not wanting to be on peaceful terms with me'
freshwest
(53,661 posts)http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Russia-to-continue-ties-with-Hamas
And what better way to prove their power or nerve than this, although it seems quite insane:
http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/113466694
Such acts focus the world's attention on the conflict. Or Hamas' ability to use PR.
At one time I thought the Palestinians were being sacrificed for Saudi interests, but maybe was mistaken. Arab nations in the region have a mixed record of building peace there.
I believe the I/P conflict is benefitting other parties never mentioned.
Some Israelis have said they resent Americans and others attempting to speak for them. IIRC the writer said 'It's our blood and bodies being used for their ambitions.'
The land dispute goes back the Ottoman empire, which the ISIS and others have long dreamed of restoring. It's not as simple as media would have us believe, nor do we have a balanced view coming from a western prepective. The roots of this was centuries before the USA was created.
Russia is the 'friend to the north' mentioned, although the eventual result of their link has been debunked:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014847529#post4
That was in reply to this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014847529#post1
All links, save my reply, are from the same DUer who posted the links at the beginning of my post. Some are reputable sources.
bossy22
(3,547 posts)Or is that okay in your mind. Or is it okay as long as those "rich world controlling Jews" are killed
And again, those kids are not the intended target but sad collateral damage
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)last legs, and they should do anything to prevent losing their freedom to their arch enemy. Those kids absolutely WERE the intended target. Do you really think that Navy ship did not know what they were doing? Who they were killing? Without the condemnation of so many countries Israel would have simply shrugged it off.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)on knowledge of the shooter, the proximate cause of the shooting, and the actions of the children from when they were spotted until they were killed.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Why not just say that?
Fact: Israel received reports that there were rockets being launched at Israel from that vicinity.
Fact: The terror org, Hamas, is well known for hiding their launching positions among civilians.
Fact: Those 4 youths, while tragic, were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Fact: If the terror org, Hamas, had accepted the cease fire in the first place, those youths would still be alive.
Fact: The terror org, Hamas, is wholly responsible for those youths deaths.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)the shooter to ameliorate their actions. Do YOU have absolute proof that any of these facts happened? I want word-for-word commands; I want pictures taken by the naval vessel; I want diagrams showing exact locations of the intended strike; I want all verifiable facts to prove everything you said.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)bupkus.
lexx21
(321 posts)By all of your statements you are an anti semite. Just go ahead and say it and get it over with.
For one thing, the jews didn't just "land on their street". If you knew anything of history they have been there for a few thousand years so that is hardly "just landing".
Secondly, there is a faction within Palestine that is just itching to kill jews. It's just like there is a faction in Ireland that is itching to kill Brits. They are called radicals and should be put down.
Third, and I hate to say this so bluntly, but you are totally delusional.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)I wondered which of you would come up with this. I am 1/3 rd Jewish, slick. You're the one whose drunk the kool aid. Take your racist insults somewhere else.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)And the 1/3 Jewish? That's like a racist saying their best friends are AA's.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)against AA's? Ah, pot calling kettle black, eh? What you believe is not my concern. My concern is the killing of children knowingly and wantonly by the Israeli Navy, Hamas's notice of offer of ceasefire notwithstanding.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Nice try at labeling me but, it's an epic fail.
Once again, do you have any proof, other than your beliefs, that the Israeli Navy "knowingly and wantonly" targeted those 4 youths?
BTW, I don't for one second, believe your claims.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts)I've never said what my race is, so how do you know?
You, OTOH, have made it quite clear that you would like to see Israel wiped off by a neighbor to the north.
lexx21
(321 posts)that is not being racist. And I'm sorry to say, but all of your statements lead up to my surmising that you are in fact anti semitic. If you can't see the slant of what you yourself write.......
I'm 100% Irish and have no wish to see ANYONE killed by the IRA or the Brits and trust me, the Irish have been treated like pure dog shit over the centuries by England. After all they have done to my people I do not hate them. I do not wish to see them pushed into the sea. I do not want to see any of them hurt. That is the difference here between you and myself. You are advocating the destruction of Israel.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)keeps up their belligerence. What happens should that help be forthcoming is not up to me. Of course I have a side. I do not want innocent people to die, but if the administration of Israel were changed I would be glad. There is one man responsible for the condition of Israel right now. As far as your tale of the Irish, there are three monster countries in the world right now, those that destroy and steal just because they can. I am advocating the destruction of nothing.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Now I know you're not posting honestly.
rdking647
(5,113 posts)no actual facts
bossy22
(3,547 posts)Israelis hold you themselves in the highest regards as it pertains to morality and civilized conduct. They israeli citizenship would not accept their military twrgetting civilians on purpose
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts)Just your "beliefs"?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)of watching the actions of the respective adversaries.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)constantly firing rockets into Israel?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)sophisticated rockets I paid for at a people they have run out of their own country. This conversation is over.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)the terror org Hamas firing rockets into Israel, that is an established fact.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)No way did or would Israel target those boys.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)Right.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)that your anti-Jewish, even though some of your best friends are Jewish.
Bombing four kids openly on purpose makes absolutely no sense in any universe.
bossy22
(3,547 posts)First I heard of that one.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I support Israel. That goodness the United States does to. Israel must not be defeated ever!!!!!
Chan790
(20,176 posts)If I shoot at your house and you respond with overwhelming force, the state police are going to arrest you. You're the bigger criminal there. Self-defense is limited to reasonable response. You can't mow down a mall food-court full of people with an uzi because somebody pulled a knife on you.
I have attempted to make that point again and again and again, and in each case the response has boiled down to "Hamas started it."
Thank you for articulating it so plainly.
bossy22
(3,547 posts)Israel didn't intentially target those civilians...that's the difference. Hamas is intentionally targeting civilians and the only reason why more Israelis haven't died is that the rockets aren't accurate at all.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)Especially not when Israel maintains its unchanging policy of "it's all Hamas' fault."
IronGate
(2,186 posts)If the terror org. Hamas had accepted the cease fire, then those 4 youths would still be alive.
True or False?
Orrex
(63,224 posts)Israel typically issues a series of burdensome demands in its ceasefires while giving up nothing in return. They simply are not negotiating in good faith, not least because they refuse to halt their encroaching settlements in Gaza nor lift the crushing blockade against Palestinian access to food, water, medicine, building supplies and legitimate commerce.
Israel is acting like a strong-arm extortionist trying to wring a series of assymetrical concessions from a battered, bullied victim.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts)How so?
Yes or no.
If the terror org Hamas had accepted the cease fire, like Israel did, would those 4 youths still be alive?
It's really a simple question.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts)Israel withheld it's fire for 6 hours despite the terror org Hamas continually firing rockets into Israel.
If the terror org Hamas had just accepted the cease fire, then Israel wouldn't have had any reports of rocket fire from that area, hence, those 4 youths would still be alive.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)been in position and would have fired. That's what I believe. This is getting nowhere. You have your biases and I have mine. It will be over this year.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Well, you've finally got something right, it will be over with the destruction of the terror org Hamas and good fucking riddance.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts)Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Orrex
(63,224 posts)Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Orrex
(63,224 posts)Instead of deliberately bombing civilian sites with high-accuracy airstrikes while claiming to be the victim.
Look, I'm not interested in sniping with you. I understand that Israel can do no wrong in your view and is justified in any action it takes as long as it can claim "self-defense."
You and others are happy to overlook the hundreds of innocent Palestinians killed by an overwhelming military power. Why?
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)and falsely accusing Israel of targeting civilians. Why indeed?
Orrex
(63,224 posts)I don't care if Israel claims not to be targeting civilians, because they are killing civilians regardless. Why do you find that morally acceptable?
And can you provide a link citing Hamas' actual policy of deliberately causing civilian casualties, or are you simply parroting propaganda?
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Orrex
(63,224 posts)I can't view the video from here, but I suspect that a 16-second soundbyte, hand-selected by "idfblog.com" isn't an entirely representative summary of Hamas policy.
The second is a speculative WaPo article.
So I'll ask again: do you have an actual citation of actual Hamas policy to cause actual civilian casualties?
Even if that were true, do you feel that Hamas policy gives Israel carte blanche to kill and destroy wherever it wants to?
It has been claimed repeatedly that Israel is acting with restraint. I suppose they are, in the same way that a guy with a baseball bat shows restraint by hitting you in the head ten times instead of eleven.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)I've wasted enough time belaboring the obvious.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)If you're so confident in your assessment of Hamas policy, then surely you can document that policy easily.
I mean, to do otherwise would be to whip up propaganda out of thin air, and I'm sure that you wouldn't do something like that.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Demanding documentation for something that's open public knowledge is a bullshit tactic.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)"Public knowledge" doesn't trump reality. It's "public knowledge" that Israel "shows restraint" and "minimizes civilian" casualties, too.
If you make the claim here, you should be ready to document the claim. A pair of links to dubious source material previously cited in I/P doesn't count as documentation.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Orrex
(63,224 posts)I asked for a citation and you failed to provide one.
Who's playing games?
Response to Orrex (Reply #1)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)was to comment on the media's tendency to highlight violent actions by Hamas, framing them as truce-breaking aggression, while downplaying Israel's violence as acts of wholly justified self-defense.
Still, I would love for the ceasefire to succeed.
Response to Orrex (Reply #90)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)I've caught MSM snippets including NPR which appears to have adopted a sort of "shame on both sides" attitude.
Glad to hear that other outlets are tacking a different stance.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)This is LBN, the subject line is supposed to match the URL.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)ddddddddddd
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Response to bemildred (Reply #10)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)There are several wannabe intermediaries, for one thing, and the shooting has resumed for another. I do think there is a cease-fire and/or truce coming, but not yet. I think it likely that the UNSC will weigh in, but it could take some time, or not.
Response to bemildred (Reply #83)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Just saying there are competing narratives about what is going on, and until Hamas and Israel are on the same page about it, I don't expect the shooting will stop, probably not entirely even then, it may take a while for things to settle down. Although both sides did show some control by observing the short cease-fire.
Response to bemildred (Reply #91)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
The Magistrate
(95,255 posts)This is something I expect Hamas would want to avoid; the wrecking of facilities and stores would be far more thorough than the air attacks can manage.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)The Magistrate
(95,255 posts)Hence the old saw:
"All men of reason are men of violence at heart."
bemildred
(90,061 posts)And most of the participants more or less nuts. So I am reluctant to predict what they might choose to do next. But it does seem to be the case that pressure for this folly to end is building on both sides, and that the loons on both sides are outraged about that. But both sides did manage to observe the short cease-fire, as I mentioned to the other poster, and that is a good sign.
libodem
(19,288 posts)That is praying. I'd fill the page with them.
What? If there is a God and Goddess they will hear secular humanist pleading from earth.
rdking647
(5,113 posts)immediately after the cease fire ended hamas started shooting at civilians again with their missiles
and yet some here expect israel to just sit back and take it
i wouldnt blame israel if the sent tanks in to end teh hamas threat once and for all
rdking647
(5,113 posts)just more proof that hamas actually likes getting their people killed ,for the propaganda value
Tetris_Iguana
(501 posts)This just to give Israel some breathing room after slaughtering those kids.
My money is on the ceasefire being over by Monday.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)eom
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Thank you for never giving up!