No one is going to go to war over this or take some measured military action.

But if Russia, the separatists and the Ukrainian government will not support an immediate cease fire and pull back from this area, the international community needs to speak.

For Russia this should mean immediate recall of ambassadors for consultations, temporary suspension of fly over and landing rights for commercial aviation, suspension of any forms of scientific, cultural, etc. exchanges as well as tougher sanctions that go to Putin and his fortune.

For Ukraine we suspend all military and economic assistance.

But only Russia has any sway with the separatists. I suspect if we hit Russia hard they will have at least some incentive to bring their dogs to heel.

We'll see. The fact that human remains are rotting as this chess game progresses is disgusting. It reminds me of how horrible mankind can be to one another.

all assistance to Ukraine is also halted and Ukraine stops using aircraft to kill its own people for good.

This cannot be a West gets everything deal -- there must be a give and take.

When did Ukraine bomb Russia?

There is no give and take. There is a crashed plane sitting in Ukraine and the bodies need to be recovered. "No reasonable person" would object to that. The world shouldn't negotiate for decency.

Are you for real? Why should the world community have to "give and take"?
This is a crime scene and Russia needs to order it's pro Russian terrorists to back the fuck off and let in the intl. investigators, unless, of course, Russia has something to hide.

of the Bush crime family with its capo Cheney.

Was the international community allowed to go and investigate?

Heck -- even the photos of crimes in Abu Ghraib have been suppressed from the public.

Look in the mirror.

it's about Pootie Poot telling his pro Russian terrorists to back the fuck off and let the intl. investigators in to the crash site.
You want to talk about Iraq, in which I did a combat tour in, then start your own thread.

(in best Jack Nicholson voice)

Yours?

How about staying on topic instead of trying to deflect the truth from your glorious leader.

It's the scope of the ceasefire.

Both sides have declared a ceasefire in the area. But even with that, the rebels had been insisting on a full theatre-wide ceasefire before letting the "experts" in and the cold-cars with the bodies move out.

That would have allowed resupply across the border as the Ukr forces were really poised to do some serious harm to the rebels' logistics and supply lines. Since that claim was made Donets'k has been surrounded, Luhansk has been cut off from supplies, and Severedonetsk and adjacent towns have been surrounded and some have fallen to Ukr forces. The rebel territory is, for the most part, segmented now and serious resupply lines have been cut. (There are still some back roads that are open, but those are slow and take longer to use.)

Ukr has been known to exaggerate the efficacy of their blockades and there's aways the possibility that one or two or even all three of the leaders in the surrounded areas will make a break for it. Speculation is that they may try to regroup in a central corridor with the fourth main "warlord", Bezler, who's feeling some heat as Gorlovka's under attack. (If you look at a map, the NE, the N-central, and extreme west of the rebel-held territory are lopped off. But there's still a strip from west of the plane crash to the Russian border that's rebel controlled, alnog a major highway. Control gets fuzzy right at the border, but there's a stretch of rebel territory in the east just north of that corridor that does extend to the border.)

absolutely weak and inconsequential the UN organization is