not sure about max sentence

Why is it now the norm to KILL a suspect?
Couldn't they have shot him in the leg instead?

I hope Carillo is given a severe sentence for what happened as a result of the 911 call.

What a senseless death...


BHN

First off you don't wound with a gun, you maim and cripple. You render limbs useless and at best you might send someone through years of physical therapy to get even a fraction of their mobility back. In real life, if you shoot the bad guy in the shoulder you're lucky if his arm is ever really even close to the same again.

Secondly you're LUCKY if that is the case. It is just as likely you'll hit a something incredibly important like an artery and they'll end up dead. Our bodies are just jam packed with things that are really important and metal traveling through us is never a safe bet. There is not a safe way to be shot.

Thirdly, once you consider all that the safest best is just to aim for the center of mass. Half the time the bullet might end up their shoulder anyways, shooting in a high pressure life or death situation is nothing like a day at the range. You aim to hit them not to wound, if you aim to wound you'll probably end up missing and thus dead.

I hope that clears this up.

Just curious as to your source of information-
Cop?
Military?
EH?
BHN

Adrenalin is pumping and people involved are scared and nervous. Look at this statistic, for example, in a story about the controversy over proposed 'shoot-to-wound' legislation in NY:

Some dumb ass called 911 and started this shit!
Now a family is destroyed by the death of a son.
Damn, I am hating this world a little more every day.
We don't deserve the beauty that we have been given-
that is all I can think when I read, see, and hear about something
like this.

BHN

But it certainly escalated the situation.

I say should be, but if you someone doesn't understand those facts they have no business being around a loaded weapon.

I've never had to fire at someone in self defense, thank god, but I do take it upon myself to be knowledge about the process if I had to.

Another good tip is that firing a "warning shot" into the air is absolutely idiotic, especially in an urban setting. What goes up must come down and people have been killed by bullets that have fallen in that way.

I have no experience or training with guns.
I HATE that a kid is dead for no good reason...


BHN

I feel for everyone involved.

The guy who lied and said the kid had a weapon is an idiot, but there is no way he had any idea what his lie would lead to. Now he is going to spend a very long time behind bars.
The poor kid was probably incredibly confused and trying to show that he didn't have a weapon. Now he is dead.
The cops meanwhile had bad information which leads to them making a bad decision. I don't blame them for that, if that information had been accurate they did what they are supposed to do. They are going to have to live with taking a life that didn't need to be taken for the rest of their life. That is a heavy burden for anyone.

Cops recieve training right?

Regardless of the 911 call the cops should have make sure the guy had a weapon before killing him.

When are cops going to put public safety before their own safety?

That's what we pay them for right?

You realize that you're basically asking for the cops to let people point guns at them before they fire right? That is going to result is a whole hell of a lot of cops getting shot.

But people with zero weapons experience always demand irrational things like that. How about they just shoot the guns out of the bad guys hands? Dodge bullets in matrix time?

Very sad, but even though the cop's decision is wrong knowing that he wasn't actually armed. Based on what they were told going into the situation it was the right one.

That is why the guy who supplied the false information got arrested.

for anyone with any sort of firearms training. You shoot to kill, or not at all. Ideally, that is why the Taser now exists if you want to disable without killing. Of course as we know the cops now use the Taser way too much.

Shooting to wound is a Hollywood fiction.

However, the cop more than likely wasn't aiming for her leg. If he did he was aiming at a target in a confined closet probably a few feet away at most.

Compare that to making the same shot 20-30 feet.

Let me sum up what you have asked for in this thread.

You want cops to make instant decisions (you want them to wait until they see the gun, generally the first time they see it it is already pointed at them) that are always correct and disable with a single perfectly placed shot to a limb (ignoring the fact shots to the limbs can be just as deadly as ones in the center of mass). They will have to do this in high pressure life or death situations, often while running, often while the suspect is moving and if they miss they are more than likely dead. They might be dead anyways because again you're demanding they wait until they see the gun until they are allowed to use deadly force.

Anything else you want while I'm off in imagination land? Maybe a unicorn?

all people with weapons are taught one shot. Aim middle high in the center of the chest. Shooting to wound is a fantasy.

Not to disable, not to kill.

In that situation, if he had actually been armed, you don't have time to do things halfway.
You have to stop him immediately from bringing out his weapon.

Sort of like the cops said that Zimmerman had a broken nose and his head was slammed against the sidewalk!

the "disturbed" 68 year old veteran had a knife?

Hate to say this, but according to the article, one of the suspects
had gang affiliation and was on probation.
I have to wonder if Carillo's call was gang or racially motivated.

I think it could be a possibility.

BHN

If you don't understand that you shouldn't be talking. There is no such thing as shooting to wound.

He was reaching for his Skittles.

I never know who the fuck to believe anymore.

What if the cops pulled a "Trayvor" and needed someone
to blame for it?

I'm not saying I think that ... but I"m just saying it is
exceedingly difficult and taxing to keep trying to sift
through all this M$M hype and distortion to finally get
to something remotely resembling the Truth.

No need. You already know the answer.

mikey_the_rat

When I saw the title of this OP.

they arrested the caller but also arrested the other suspect for burglary and grand theft? So there was a theft, Oscar was correct with this. The Cops then shot McDade after seeing him reach towards his waistband, perhaps Oscar saw a similar movement or an object looking like a potential weapon. I dont see how this is in any way Oscar's fault for what could have been merely warning the police that these two burglars were potentially holding weapons.

Why the hell did Carillo call the cops anyway?
There wasn't even a laptop found- he claimed the
other two had stolen his laptop at gun point...
Yet NO laptop and NO guns at the scene.

DAMN!

Needless death due to Carillo's actions.
What a jerk.

BHN

And they'll still probably walk.

"Ooh, he made a suspicious movement."

"Ooh, I was in fear for my life."

"Ooh, he brandished an (insert innocent object here) and I thought it was a gun."

Killer cops make me grumpier.

The 911 caller gets prosecuted, fine and good. But they also ought to prosecute the officer.

Oh wait, that was the cop. Well, never mind about that. It was clearly the fault of the caller only. We wouldn't want to blame the nice police officer that gunned down the unarmed student. Cops are our friends, don't ya know. Just doing their job.

Act like you're grabbing something from your waist, put your hand in front of you and pull your finger. Tell me how long that takes.

Now do that a whole let of a lot until you're really good at it.

Realize that is how long a cop has to decide whether to shoot or not.

You tell me if you think you could make that decision with a 100% accuracy. Keep in mind if you get it wrong even once you get shot or an innocent person does.

Nah the cops are just killing people because it is easier.

You're a cop who realizes he just shot and killed an unarmed person.

Run through scenarios about how you're going to justify it. You've already practiced them a lot until you've got it down pat.

Now, quick, say, "He made a suspicious movement. I feared for my life."

Look, I don't have any reason to think this cop maliciously killed this innocent college student. But he nonetheless killed this innocent college student. And there's a lot of that stuff going on. Maybe our police need some retraining. Or do we as a society just suck it up?

We as society arrest the ones who are responsible, but in this case it wasn't the police. If an armed suspect suddenly reached for their waste band you shoot them, to do anything else would be suicidal.

Sadly for everyone involved some idiot wanted his laptop back faster so he lied and said the thieves were armed. There isn't any training that can fix cops getting bad information.

It was the cop who shot the unarmed black college student, not the guy who made the false report.

The guy who made the false report should be charged with making a false report.

The cop should be charged with negligent manslaughter or something similar. He fucked up and killed an innocent person.

Am I second guessing him? Hell, yes, I'm second guessing him. His split-second decision cost an innocent person his life.

You are among the people arguing that it is and should be "shoot to kill." Well, with that comes a pretty big responsibility, don't you think? You better be damned sure before you shoot, and this cop clearly wasn't.

And it seems to be a systemic problem. There are questionable police killings all over the country on a regular basis. I think we have a serious problem here.

There had to be another way, they sound way too agitated over a laptop

for their killing unarmed blacks, Hispanics, and anyone they dislike. Police will show up on the scene of a real crime when woman is being abused by a spouse or boyfriend, leave the scene, and come back later when the woman is dead.

Eventually, it will be determined if the 911 caller really, really believed what he reported.

edit to add: I live in a burb close to Pasadena. I guess from now on, I'll stay out of Pasadena at night.