are in court being sued, yet the shooter continues to luxuriate in some facility, and his trial isn't even scheduled until DECEMBER of this year?

What an upside down world. The shooter is responsible for this tragedy, period.

If there were guards where tickets were taken to note weird behavior, military dress back packs etc where they 'might' be checked it would do a lot to cut down on shootings. They might still occur but it's the least theaters could do to ward off some sickos. Works at football stadiums etc.

The movie theatres in Massachusetts would confiscate women's purses if they felt the purses were too big. I don't think they caught any guns.

PROPPED that door open, and came back in with guns blazing. He went in through the front door and bought a ticket like everyone else and had no guns on him, then.

Not securing the emergency exit was the forseeable part to me--I lived nearby at the time.

have emergency exits have alarms attached to those doors that go off when they are opened. This theatre did not, so when Holmes opened it, noone was the wiser. Many other theatres used to allow their audiences to stream out the emergency exit doors after the movie was over. None that I've been in allow that any longer since the Aurora shooting.

What's your experience been with that since the shooting?

I noticed not long after this tragedy, my local AMC had alarms on their emergency exit doors. It doesn't wholly fix the problem, but it helps secure things a little.

little local one room theatre, as does everyone I know in my area. And in the past, it sure was handy to stream out the emergency doors right into the parking lot. I don't mind, though, now having to go the long circuitous route out the front door, down the side of the building and then around back, since the chance of exposure to a sitting duck gallery shooting event is now lessened. I'd rather a simple fix like that, instead of a draconian TSA type fix.

I see people go out them all the time as a movie ends. They never go off.

because of that. Maybe those theatres missed the 'memo' that their insurance company should have sent them after Aurora to rearm those doors or lose their business insurance.

Forseeable is forseeable. Worries me that a Holmes copycat may be out there making a list of vulnerable theatres. Hope you and everyone else who notices unsecured and improperly used emergency doors say something to the owners. Also check whether any agency in your locale has a duty to inspect those doors, if that practice at all concerns you.

Would be good if those theatre would do simple security things like emergency exit alarms so we don't end up with unreasonable and stifling TSA type solutions to forseeable security problems.

at a supermarket, a public park, a megachurch, etc...

Complete with a metal detector, rubber gloves and surly large guards ready to frisk the crotch of every patron they deem suspicious. That will work for sure. It will be Job Creation on a massive scale.

When insurance companies are on the line for every public shooting, Big Business will join together to "persuade" the Courts and Government to sharply limit the ability of people to own and carry guns. Using every cent of the Citizens United free speech rights.

So sad that the deaths of school kids can not get our politicians moving to protect us but this threat to the pocketbooks of businessmen will.

More security guards, the cost of which will be passed on to us. Metal detectors at movie theaters, ditto. Women's purses searched, etc. Long lines as the public meekly submits, just as we do at airports.

I think the business community will be vehemently opposed to this. Implementing security measures sufficient to shield themselves from potential liability would represent a very significant new costs for business owners. And how would a business owner ever determine that he or she had done "enough," or had foreseen a sufficient range of theoretically possible bad events? What's more, if this ruling is allowed to stand, the judge's logic could be extended to every theater, opera house, concert hall, church, school, sports venue, restaurant and store.

Unfortunately, the judge in question, R. Brooks Jackson, is one of ours, appointed to the federal bench in 2010 by President Obama.

See how the NRA likes the heat that comes from every single business in the country having a vision of being forced to buy metal detectors and employ armed guards to run them throughout business hours.

a patron from stopping a shooter. Century Aurora 16 theater had such a sign.

Exactly how much security would have been needed to stop someone with his type of weapons? Quite a bit would be my guess. It is unrealistic to expect every gathering place to have well trained armed security.

On the other hand, I was at my movieplex (12 or so theaters) a few weeks ago for an afternoon matinee. The place was deserted, once you got upstairs there was one employee in a wheelchair to take your ticket. After that you walked down corridor after empty corridor never seeing any employee. If someone were raped or assaulted in that maze of empty corridors/bathrooms, I could see that they might want to sue the movieplex for not having sufficient security to deter that type of thing from happening.

before he ever entered the movie theater. They'd have seen his awkward behavior and his weird dress in military fatigues and gun bulges. The shooter might have felt intimidated enough not to even try to enter. Security guard won't stop all but gun gates are tax deductible.

but you still need to generate enough $$$ to pay for the added security

It's pretty sad that public venues have to be concerned about how a shooting might play out in their facility. It would be nice to go to a movie and not have to look over at the exit doors every few minutes.

The ones to blame if blame should be aimed is at the gun manufactures and the people doing the shooting.

Since pro-gun activists want guns allowed in as many venues as possible, why shouldn't those venues shoulder some responsibility? Given the frequency of mass shootings, why shouldn't there be some liability for a lack of proactive measures? You can't have it both ways. I appreciate the judge's ruling, maybe it will start waking people up.

some nut with 3 guns, guess what that means? This country starts looking like Israel, with army on every street corner. There are certain segments of this country that likes that idea for a couple of different reasons, so I wonder if the judge is a member of one of those segments.....

The defendant is held liable for things that happen that are reasonably foreseeable.

If it's so out of the ordinary that it's not foreseeable, the defendant should not be held liable.

Example: If supermarkets don't clean up spills, slip and fall injuries are likely. That's why they usually send someone with a mop and broom to clean up spills, and call them immediately on the P.A. system.

I think the mass shooting is foreseeable, as the judge was comparing people in malls and students in school to people in a movie theater audience. I have a law degree. And I've seen hundreds of trials during my years as a court reporter.

That is a good point in this thread that someone put up, that being would it do any good to stop someone with several weapons attempting to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible?

ridiculous

EVERY area that large numbers of people gather is a potential target of a mass shooting.

Every mall, every school, every Walmart, every movie theater, every state fair, every airport, etc, etc.

We have to take off our shoes and be X-rayed before we see the latest movie?

No thanks...

They have happened in schools, movie theaters, parks, court houses, private homes, places of work and churches

By this judges logic any time a shooting occurs you can sue the owner.

Not sure I agree

I can't imagine a higher court will allow such a precedent to be set........

Should we start consulting our crystal balls when planning for the future?

Just stupid.

Under the logic of the judge's ruling, is there any limit at all to what an owner of a venue is expected to "foresee?" I don't think that is at all fair to the owners of these businesses.

So Sandy Hook was foreseeable? Are we going to see schools turned into armed camps to keep out shooters to protect the district from lawsuits?

to get access. They were criticized for that. I see many points of easy entry at my daughter's old elementary (not to mention the Junior High and High School). Interesting enough my old elementary and junior high in Garden Grove California come with a perimeter security fence now (it was not that way in the 1970s when I was in school).

Such a small district like that could be driven into bankruptcy if it were found liable.

I guess new school will have to be built with bullet proof glass windows that don't open and security cameras all over the place. It is pretty ridiculous if it comes down to that.

Every town, in theory, must prepare for some asshole to go nuts.

Just imagine: the NRA in the gun insurance business.

"Join the NRA, and get a year of gun insurance free!"

The theatre didn't kill those people, Holmes did.

The problem is Holmes likely doesn't have two dimes in his name and he'll probably be locked up one way or another for a long long time. The only one left to sue would be the movie theater.

If the victims win, it is going to hold businesses to a new higher standard for providing security causing their costs to go through the roof. Guess who that cost will be passed along to? In the end, everyone gets screwed.

In a motion for summary judgement, the judge MUST assume everything in the plaintiff's case are true. Such motions are used where a party states facts, even if true, they still lose.

The Movie Theater tried to get the Judge to rule, that the Movie Theater did all it could to prevent this tragedy and thus the case should be dismissed. The Judge ruled that, given the facts alleged by the Plaintiffs, it is possible that the Movie Theater did NOT do all that it could AND foreseeable to prevent this tragedy and thus the Movie Theater may be liable.

Notice the Judge did NOT rule that the Movie Theater was liable, but that it MAY be liable. It is still up to a jury to determine that fact.

Under this ruling, it is foreseeable that every single public venue could be the site of a mass shooting. THAT means that, should this ruling withstand appeal, we will be under a security/surveillance state that is truly unimaginable when every business tries to limit liability. TSA like security to get into the grocery store. I'd rather take my chances at being shot by a mass shooter. I'd probably rather BE shot by a mass shooter.

So ridiculous .. more pro NRA bull crap to arm every citizen in the U.S. and employ guards in every entity known to man.

Last edited Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:17 AM - Edit history (1)

... And gas stations and your house and offices and parks etc... Etc... Etc...

Diverts blame from the real person who is responsible... The shooter..

Only that the movie theater doesn't automatically win because the shooting was unforeseeable.

Everyone should have access to health care, and mental health facilities. It's like what happened in Nebraska, most of the mental health facilities were shut down. I said, "This place is ripe for a mass murder, don't know where or when, but it will probably happen."
Within a few years, a teenager went into Von Maur, and killed several people. The state said, they did everything they could, and even sent him out of state for treatment. They shouldn't have had to send him out of state for treatment, it should have been available here..

There is another recent case where a man, by the name of Nikko Jenkins, while in prison asked for help concerning his mental health, and was denied. He no sooner was released, and killed several people.

We live in a disgusting society, people would rather spend more money punishing, then on helping those who need it. Our politicians won't expand Medicaid, but will act surprised when it happens again, and will want to increase sentences, like they are currently trying to do, at tax payers expense.

I agree that movie theaters from Aurora on need to increase security measures, but these people deserve a pass for the "no one could have seen it happening" rule. They are victims in this case as well. It's seriously sad that we have come to this. Disband and sue the NRA, right fucking now.

Under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, any party can ask the Court for a Summary Judgement. Summary Judgement is made where there are NO disputes as to facts OR even if the facts claimed by the other side are true, that side still loses.

Notice NO weighing of the facts, no decision as to the facts of the case, just a ruling that under Law, even if the Plaintiffs PROVE everything they claim, they still lose.

That is a Motion for Summary Judgement. Thus the Judge did NOT decide the facts of the case, all the judge did was ASSUME the facts claimed by the Plaintiff are true and made his ruling based on that assumption.

The Judge then ruled, that as a matter of law, the Movie Theater could be held liable for the shooting, even if it is common practice in the Movie Theater business NOT to have electronic censors or live bodies at the exit doors to make sure they are closed EXCEPT when the Theater is being empty and to make sure no weapons enter via such exit doors.

Remember the shooter did NOT bring his weapons within into the theater when he bought a ticket. Instead the shooter, used the ticket to access the theater, and he then prop open the exit door and took his weapons into the theater via the unmanned exit doors. Those exit door could NOT be opened from the outside, but could be prop open by someone on the inside and then be used to re-enter the theater.

People using exit and emergency entrances to enter a theater has been done for decades (and when it comes to stage plays centuries). Thus it is foreseeable that someone would use such exit doors as the shooter did. The real argument was, was it foreseeable for a person to bring in weapons via such doors? The Judge said YES in theory, but it still has to be proved at trial.