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Omaha Steve

(99,733 posts) Sun Aug 31, 2014, 09:29 PM Aug 2014

Germany to send rifles, tank busters to aid Kurds

Source: AP-Excite

By FRANK JORDANS

BERLIN (AP) — Germany will send high-end rifles, tank-busting weapons and armored vehicles to aid Kurdish fighters battling Islamic extremists in Iraq, officials said Sunday.

Germany's defense minister said the arms would be sent in three shipments, starting in September, and would initially be enough to equip a brigade of 4,000 Peshmerga fighters.

"This is in our security interest," Ursula von der Leyen told reporters in Berlin.

Germany joins other European countries who have pledged to provide arms to the Kurds fighting the Islamic State group that has swept into northern Iraq in recent months.

FULL story at link.

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140831/eu--germany-iraq-weapons-68647e29f5.html

22 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Germany to send rifles, tank busters to aid Kurds (Original Post) Omaha Steve Aug 2014 OP

Wait a minute, doesn't America hold the world monopoly on supplying arms to civil war zones? Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #1

"200 Panzerfaust 3 bazookas "? PeoViejo Aug 2014 #2

... Adsos Letter Sep 2014 #13

So, they kept the old name. PeoViejo Sep 2014 #16

When in doubt Man from Pickens Aug 2014 #3

What? You think Isis is going to suddenly feel warm and fuzzy to the kurds and want cstanleytech Aug 2014 #5

outside groups shipping weapons in is how we got into this mess Man from Pickens Aug 2014 #7

I don't see why they don't just have a meeting with ISIS to work things out. PersonNumber503602 Aug 2014 #8

Because ISIS would just butcher them, IronGate Aug 2014 #10

That must be very traumatic for ISIS to be forced to do that. PersonNumber503602 Aug 2014 #11

Yeah, kinda figured that. IronGate Aug 2014 #12

Maybe McCain's Arabic is rusty ? jakeXT Sep 2014 #20

Hey I agree the wests policies should change so we avoid these mistakes in the future however right cstanleytech Aug 2014 #9

while the PKK remains a "terrorist organization" reorg Aug 2014 #4

The Iranians beat them to it. roamer65 Aug 2014 #6

I'm Sure This Is Being Done With Obama's Blessing DallasNE Sep 2014 #14

16,000 assault rifles, 40 machine guns, 240 bazookas, 500 anti-tank missiles and 10,000 hand grenade jakeXT Sep 2014 #15

good to see the Kurdish fighters grouped /w Iraq gov,& get ground support gear from non-US country Sunlei Sep 2014 #17

The Germans had debated air strikes too but forgot almost none of their planes can fly... EX500rider Sep 2014 #18

the debate is also just symbolic jakeXT Sep 2014 #19

IS capture German weapons jakeXT Sep 2014 #21

and Merkel uses 75th anniversary of Nazi invasion to announce reorg Sep 2014 #22

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)

1. Wait a minute, doesn't America hold the world monopoly on supplying arms to civil war zones?

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 09:33 PM

Aug 2014

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)

2. "200 Panzerfaust 3 bazookas "?

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 09:43 PM

Aug 2014

Must be something lost in translation. They forgot the Lederhosen and Stahlhelms.

Adsos Letter

(19,459 posts)

13. ...

Reply to PeoViejo (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 1, 2014, 12:54 AM

Sep 2014

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust_3

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)

16. So, they kept the old name.

Reply to Adsos Letter (Reply #13)

Mon Sep 1, 2014, 09:48 AM

Sep 2014

I'm surprised they kept the old Pzf44 active in Inventory for so long. Thanks for the info.

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)

3. When in doubt

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 09:46 PM

Aug 2014

add weapons shipments

cstanleytech

(26,319 posts)

5. What? You think Isis is going to suddenly feel warm and fuzzy to the kurds and want

Reply to Man from Pickens (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 10:06 PM

Aug 2014

embrace them in fellowship around a fire and sing Kumbaya?

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)

7. outside groups shipping weapons in is how we got into this mess

Reply to cstanleytech (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 11:13 PM

Aug 2014

at some point we have to realize that a) it doesn't work as a policy; and b) more weapons won't get us any closer to peace

We've been at this nonstop since Gulf War I, things have only gotten worse. Let's try another strategy.

PersonNumber503602

(1,134 posts)

8. I don't see why they don't just have a meeting with ISIS to work things out.

Reply to Man from Pickens (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 11:19 PM

Aug 2014

IronGate

(2,186 posts)

10. Because ISIS would just butcher them,

Reply to PersonNumber503602 (Reply #8)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 11:46 PM

Aug 2014

like they've been doing to just about every ethnic people they come in contact with.

PersonNumber503602

(1,134 posts)

11. That must be very traumatic for ISIS to be forced to do that.

Reply to IronGate (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 11:49 PM

Aug 2014

(that's sarcasm, btw)

IronGate

(2,186 posts)

12. Yeah, kinda figured that.

Reply to PersonNumber503602 (Reply #11)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 11:52 PM

Aug 2014

But next time you might want to add this.

BTW, welcome to DU.

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)

20. Maybe McCain's Arabic is rusty ?

Reply to PersonNumber503602 (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 1, 2014, 03:27 PM

Sep 2014

cstanleytech

(26,319 posts)

9. Hey I agree the wests policies should change so we avoid these mistakes in the future however right

Reply to Man from Pickens (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 11:42 PM

Aug 2014

now the problem is how to deal with the current problem and wish Isis from all reports they will not be willing to have a peaceful settlement.

reorg

(3,317 posts)

4. while the PKK remains a "terrorist organization"

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 10:01 PM

Aug 2014

and if somebody is wearing their symbols at demonstrations they get punished with prison sentences.

The decision is the most flagrant violation so far of the government's "commitment" against weapon exports in crisis regions. It is seen as an attempt of von der Leyen to position herself as the next chancellor by demonstrating that she'll act as a willing tool for US military expansionism.

roamer65

(36,747 posts)

6. The Iranians beat them to it.

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 10:34 PM

Aug 2014

The Iranians already gave them the keys to the armory this last week.

Next step will be Iranian troops. This war is spreading like wildfire. The ME is near critical mass.

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)

14. I'm Sure This Is Being Done With Obama's Blessing

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Sep 1, 2014, 02:07 AM

Sep 2014

So does this mean we have given up on a unified government in Baghdad for Iraq. I presume the reason the Kurds don't already have these type of weapons was the concern they would be used against Iraqi forces from Baghdad but since the threat has changed it is time to employ Plan B.

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)

15. 16,000 assault rifles, 40 machine guns, 240 bazookas, 500 anti-tank missiles and 10,000 hand grenade

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Sep 1, 2014, 06:09 AM

Sep 2014

BERLIN, Aug. 31 (Xinhua) -- Germany decided on Sunday to provide anti-tank missiles and machine guns to the Kurds in northern Iraq to support the fight against the Islamic State (IS), German media reported.

The decision was made after a meeting attended by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen.

Germany will send 16,000 assault rifles, 40 machine guns, 240 bazookas, 500 anti-tank missiles and 10,000 hand grenades to the Kurds, said a statement by the German Ministry of Defence.

As German media Spiegel Online reported, due to the humanitarian situation in Iraq, the German government has "started with delivery of assistance to the amount of 50 million euros so far".

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-09/01/c_133609597.htm

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)

17. good to see the Kurdish fighters grouped /w Iraq gov,& get ground support gear from non-US country

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Sep 1, 2014, 09:55 AM

Sep 2014

Saudi Arabia needs to step-up with help. It's not good enough to hire pro-merc private security corp protection to keep IS troubles smashed out of their country. Help your neighbors Saudis!! you can afford the best and have the ability to push IS back from where they came from!

EX500rider

(10,869 posts)

18. The Germans had debated air strikes too but forgot almost none of their planes can fly...

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Sep 1, 2014, 12:00 PM

Sep 2014

The recent ISIL (al Qaeda in Iraq and Syria) misbehavior (mass murder and so on) in Syria and Iraq has caused a public uproar in Europe and generated demands that NATO send forces to try and stop all the killing. The German government responded on August 20th with a pledge to send weapons to the Kurds who are fighting ISIL in northern Iraq. But Germany was reluctant to send warplanes or troops. A few days later a German Defense Ministry readiness report was leaked and it made it clear why even getting weapons to the Kurds would be difficult. The report showed that only 8 percent of 109 Eurofighter (similar to the U.S. F-15), 11 percent of 67 CH-53 transport helicopters, and 10 percent of 33 NH90 helicopters were fully operational (not sidelined for upgrades, repairs or other problems.) However 38 percent of 56 C-160 twin turboprop transports were available. This made it possible to fly some weapons into northern Iraq, but not much else. Normally a combat ready military has at least half, and more normally over 70 percent of its warplanes ready to go. While this situation shocked many, those who have followed European military trends since the 1980s were not surprised.

http://strategypage.com/htmw/htmurph/articles/20140831.aspx

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)

19. the debate is also just symbolic

Reply to EX500rider (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 1, 2014, 03:25 PM

Sep 2014

The parliamentary debate would be primarily symbolic; all German arms exports must be approved by a special government panel, but not parliament. Domestic news agency dpa reported on Wednesday that the coaliltion was considering allowing a symbolic vote - sure to pass with ease - on the break from normal German policy.

http://www.dw.de/merkel-speaks-of-genocide-by-is-as-germany-readies-arms/a-17885408

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)

21. IS capture German weapons

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Sep 1, 2014, 05:48 PM

Sep 2014

IS capture German weapons, Merkel defends arming Kurds
...

Islamic State fighters posted footage and pictures of a number of weapons seized after they captured the Tabqa airbase in Syria last week.

The last 6 minutes of a video shot at the airbase shows weapons and equipment ranging from ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft cannons to Konkurs ATGMs, as well as what appears to be an “anti-tank defense” weapon called a “panzerabwehr 136mm,” believed to be made in Germany.

“LFK HOT” missiles, that investigative journalism website Bellingcat claims were made jointly by the French and Germans for ground vehicles and aircraft can also be seen.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/headlines/143484/is-capture-german-weapons-merkel-defends-arming-kurds

http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/isis/terroristen-erbeuten-deutsche-raketen-37495934.bild.html

reorg

(3,317 posts)

22. and Merkel uses 75th anniversary of Nazi invasion to announce

Reply to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Sep 2, 2014, 01:00 AM

Sep 2014

this break with German non-interventionist policy:

The German parliament has met in a special session to debate plans to ship weapons to Iraq. The opposition was critical of the shipments, warning that these arms could easily fall into the wrong hands.

Monday's extraordinary session of the German Bundestag began with a minute's silence. It was on 1 September 1939 that Germany invaded Poland, triggering the start of World War Two. 75 years later, members of parliament met to debate the government's decision to send weapons to northern Iraq in support of Kurdish fighters, as they struggle to repel the advance of the terrorist militia that calls itself the "Islamic State" (IS, formerly ISIS).

It's a decision Chancellor Angela Merkel described as "far-reaching." It means abandoning what has been a fundamental principle of German foreign policy since the end of the Second World War: not to supply arms to war zones or crisis regions. ...

http://www.dw.de/germany-to-deliver-weapons-to-iraqi-kurds-battling-is-terrorists/a-17894131

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