Some of the first things that come to mind though are what type of Jeep were they using to pull the wagon and was the wagon too heavy for a small Jeep? If the wagon was large enough to be carrying 17 people and even a fairly small amount of hay there would be an enormous amount of stress on the Jeep, a vehicle designed for towing light loads only. Couple that with the steepness of the inclines that are mentioned, along with the age of the Jeep, worn steering, suspension, and brake parts, and corrosion to the towbar mounts, and there is an accident of exactly this type waiting to happen.

Simply calling it a mechanical problem sounds like an excuse to me.

What a horrible tragedy.

I hope the injured make very speedy recoveries and get the best care possible.

Wife and oldest daughter involved, luckily escaping with minor injuries. Tractor was doing the pulling back then abd a hill was involved. NO state oversight here either. I grew up in a county that was mostly country without EVER going on a hay ride. Not really sure where these rides gained such popularity, but things do happen.

A client had their Halloween office parties here and wanted hay rides as part of the events. The people who enjoyed the rides the most seemed to be "city" people who had not spent much time in the country.

We put short sides on our flatbed, hay bakes around the edges and loose hay in the middle. No one was allowed to sit on the bales, just on the lower middle area - that kept them from falling off the edges. The flatbed was pulled with the tractor and the tractor never got out of Low, never over 10 mph and most of the time it was around 5 mph.

We took the rides down the hill, through our woods and around the pond. Put glow sticks in jars and threw them out into the pond and let them float around. Hung glow sticks under sheets in the trees. Otherwise it was pitch black, so the overhanging branches were startling and the few lights were eerie.

A quick calculation has me thinking too much weight was behind the jeep, the driver couldn't slow or stop forcing the jack-knife. 17 people @ 150 lbs makes it 2,550 lbs. Throwing in 15 bales at about 100 lbs each brings the total to 2 tons, not counting the weight of the trailer. They say it was a mechanical failure, maybe it was too much of a load. It wouldn't be too much of a push on a decent tractor down low - you know the difference. Your rides are done sensibly and the set up sounds great! Brings back memories of some good times.

I had to research safe vehicles to pull a four horse trailer as well as the flatbed trailer we used to use to move hay.

The trailer empty weighs about 4200 lbs. Four of my mares weighing ~1500 lbs each makes a towing weight over 10,000 lbs. The flatbed because of it's construction, weight about 3/4 of the horse trailer but I'd haul 150 square bales @ 70 lbs (10,500 lbs) each or 5 round bales @ 800 lbs each (4000 lbs).

When I went truck shopping, the salesmen kept trying to sell me 1/2 ton trucks - not anywhere close to adequate. One ton trucks were out of my price range so I have a 3/4 ton Suburban with a heavy duty towing package. The 3/4 ton is barely adequate for hauling the loads of square bales, but we didn't do that often.

Aside from the towing capacity, you have to look at wheel base - a short wheel base like a Jeep is not safe - too much chance of jack knifing.

They drive short wheel base SUV type things down the interstate at 80 mph and more in the rain. They think they have control because they're going along fine in a straight line... but every so often OOPS, another one upside down in the median!

Not so many with much sense around here.

Who knew less about hauling than I do. Since most lots did not have 3/4 ton trucks, they'd try to convince me that a 1/2 ton SUV would do. One salesman tried to sell my Dad a Blazer for me to use - even though Dad was just giving me rides to the lots and he was not buying the truck! A Blazer just doesn't have the wheelbase or the towing capacity I need.

I thought shopping downstate would give me more choices, but I was surprised at the number of trucks that had been bought for people pulling travel trailers that really were not safe for the task. Light weight, short wheel base, no towing package - I turned down so many of those!

When I replaced the truck I got that round (a nice Ford F-250 diesel, great truck but I didn't get along with the diesel engine) I found my current Suburban online. It was so much less stressful, just put into Cars.com what I wanted and the look at what came up.

Now I'm retired, this Suburban will probably be the last truck I buy. It's 15 years old but only has 160,000 miles on it. My first Suburban had around 300,000 miles on it with hard travel when it died at 17 years. We're not showing, not hauling hay, not hauling horses much anymore, so this truck should have a lot more years before it dies.

Bruce had a Suburban, he also owned the side of a mountain in the Berkshires, that's some steep terrain. In '74 six of us piled in and off we went to Micquelon, about 900 miles north of Albany. The drive up the Northway was effortless. Ever since I swear by them.

Bruce and his Suburban couldn't be separated. He would carry a 16' aluminum v-hull on top of it with a 20 horse Merc inside. As a taxidermist he had plenty of time to fish whenever and where ever he wanted, if he saw a spot he liked he would take the boat off and on by himself.

One day we were both in the same narrow isle at the local lumber yard. That's when it struck me how big he was. I was 5-11 and had to look up 4" to see the tops of his shoulders. Then I understood how he could throw that boat around like some kind of toy - I had to stretch just to reach the top of his truck.

Didn't mean to get carried away with stories, csziggy.

We used to carry our 18' canoe around on the top of the old Suburban. Worst problem is for me to get it up on the roof since I am short and can't begin to reach the roof of a Suburban. We had 8x8s for the front and back bumpers so the best way was for me top climb up on the back bumper, my husband would hand me one end of the canoe. He'd then go to the other end, lift it up over the front of the truck and onto the rack. What made it hard was that the Suburban was longer than the canoe.

Another thing about being short - I can't tell if the roof on the truck is clean. Last time I got it washed, I didn't realize the roof was still covered in grime. My husband, who is a foot taller, came home and asked me why they didn't wash the roof. It wasn't a problem with the old Suburban which was brown and cream color, but Moby is white (therefore the name) so dirt shows.

Just finished watching the Grimes/McConnell debate.

on a side note: That's some serious timber on the truck!

.... don't get why a Jeep, ANY Jeep be it a CJ, YJ etc should be pulling a load like this. A Jeep is not a towing vehicle PERIOD.

"Mechanical problems" are likely to turn out to be "tiny vehicle trying to tow oversized load".

I would not want to be any of the liable parties in this debacle, the facts are unlikely to be on their side.