Playing on fear, shame on them both.

Kaci Hickox , a nurse placed in 21-day
quarantine in a tent outside of a New Jersey hospital, with no running water, electricity, and a potapotty, after
returning from treating Ebola patients in Sierra
Leone, and testing negative twice, will contest her quarantine in court, her
attorney, who hasn't been allowed to see her, said on Sunday, arguing the order
violates her constitutional rights.

The tent, no running water, porta potty ...?

sane and reasonable. what is the point of treating this woman like this? she has tested negative twice. it does absolutely nothing at all to treat her this way. it just drives home the fact that shitty politicians, who by some weird chain of events, have been given the authority to make fear-based medical decisions. screw chris for his non-medical diagnosis of "she is obviously very ill." it's the fear-feeders like christie, cuomo, and the rest of their crappy crew, that stand in the way of meaningful progress for finding treatments/cures for life-threatening diseases.

Random question? Not so much.

OMG, she's white. She is so going to win this suit.

After all the government has in the past held people in custody such as Mary Mallon.

what she said and what the lame media has been reporting.

Her...in a tent...with a chair...a cellphone...in a parking lot.

It's not true.

what they meant and found that. It is decent sized, like a field hospital tent, but still wrong. imo. Send her home, let her stay there. There is no reason to tie up that place for her, or require her to stay there.

or some other facility which resembles the inside of a parking deck...

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/quarantined-nurse-blasts-gov-christie-doctor-article-1.1987584?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nydnrss%2Fnews%2Fnational+%28News%2FNational%29

You can see the support post, and the roof in the second pic in this series.

She is still a political prisoner however you want to justify her imprisonment.

No. It was a correction.
She is in a building outside of the hospital.

In the future please read referenced posts before you comment.

it looks like a hospital set up. It is still wrong, very wrong, but no need to exaggerate as it is bad enough. If you have a link saying it is outside, I'd like to see it, thanks. I think originally she was held in a different place, with nothing there.

and that's a Republican administration.

She described her current conditions as like a "prison", saying that she is being kept in a tent within a building outside the hospital. She has a hospital bed and "a port-a-potty type restroom." Hickox said that she has "no shower facilities" and "no connection with the outside world except my iPhone which I insisted that I brought with me when I arrived late Friday night."

There is no scientific basis for treating Ms. Hickox like this. She needs to be able to go home, self monitor.

Otherwise, that would make you another authoritarian nut job, which I'm sure you're not, despite your President-elect Hillary avatar. Phew!

I believe it is acceptable in this situation to error on the side of safety until we here in the US gain full practice standards, developed at a predictable success level. I would accept the quarantine. We can always taper back out protocol as we evolve in our practice standard.

Hell no!
Initially they gave her no books, no tv, no anything. This is stupid. Quaratine her at home, where she can still be monitored daily but would at least be comfortable.

The sequestered housing set up is definitely piss poor and there is no rational reason for the lack of a pleasant environment....I understand the high level of quarantine but do find the living arrangements to be designed for dignity. No excuse there! That evokes my outrage.

It fits.

Off topic. Where are the emoticons for this forum? Or are you all using HTML?

I would like to find the sarcasm, clapping, thumbs up, etc.

I like emoticons.

It's labeled "smilies"

when you reply there is a row of buttons on top of the reply window "b, i, u, link," etc. The last one is "smilies." Click that. If you want more click the ... button.

Had to help someone find the smilies!

hmmm, I might have to steal from your stash. lol

It's not YOUR freedom, after all.

I would not blink on this request because it really isn't about me...it's about knowing I did everything possible, to my knowledge to insure others were not infected. I have no problem falling on the side of safety.

We learned that on 9-11.

I will always fall on the side of safety regarding heath of the community thus support the temporary 21day quarantine at this time.Once all the safety barriers and protocols are affirmed and in universal adherence... we can back peddle.

You mention 911....well they sure dropped the safety ball regarding protection of the rescue workers.. Respiratory precautions were a miserable failure... Look at all the deceased firefighters etc who pilfered thorough the rubble.... Occupation Medicine Physicians and specialist knew from the beginning that the workers were not well protected. A little extra safety insight and implementation would of saved lives.

Please, feel free to give up your freedoms while you hide under your bed.

As for the screwing over of the first responders, that was the usual lying by pols needing to cover their asses and also avoid financial payouts.

Actual SCIENISTS are informing those will to listen about the contagiousness of Ebola.

But hey, I'm no scientist so I guess I won't listen to them either.

... When people get scared.

Bullshit...

If we like individual rights that much, at all costs, then let's go for it.

Self-quarantine. If you come down with ebola, then you personally are liable for all decontamination and replacement costs. If anybody falls sick, you're personally liable for any expenses. If the person dies, you're guilty of first degree murder. Your estate can be sued for civil liability. That's if a close relative or friend gets it--it's if you spread it to 100 people.

Because the right of the individual is always more important than the rights of a collective.

Self-quarantine let a health care professional head to Cleveland. She tested negative until she didn't. It had another incur significant costs to government and business because he didn't test positive until he did--until then, he was negative.

So I agree. Let her go. If she winds up not hurting anybody, great. If she winds up killing somebody, she knew the risk and considered her rights more important than another's life, and the dead person should rejoice at the end that s/he gave up his/her life for another's comfort and individual rights. If she winds up making somebody else sick and causing suffering, I'm sure she'll think she's worth it. I agree that her comfort and living conditions are worth another's well-being, and am confident she won't mind showing how generous she is by not contesting any costs and penalties for causing pain and suffering. She's just a great person. And if she winds up incurring costs beyond her own treatment (should she fall sick), I'm sure she's willing to make up any costs (because we don't want to privatize gain and socialize risk)--even if it means living in penury for the rest of her life to reimburse the innocent.

Once she tested negative she should have been immediately released...

this would be a meh to you.

the empathy and compassion it takes to do what Kaci Hickox did. This guy uses "do-gooder" as an insult.

No sane reason for this. Fear, ignorance, and political expediency are driving this ridiculous overreaction. I wish her and the other health care workers willing to put themselves on the front line of this battle all the best. They deserve our respect, not to be imprisioned and vilified.

someone mentioned, just move on and get over it. She was in Sierra Leone ffs.

is not, nor is it likely ever to be, an epidemic here. Her rights are being violated. Now, granted, by the time this gets to the idiots on the Supreme Court, the whole thing will be old news.

Sounds like they are trying to stress her into becoming sick. That is no way to treat someone.

Be looking forward to sleeping in her own bed, hot shower...?
We are sooo prepared for an epidemic like they all assured us at the beginning! What a freakin joke. They should be sued.

protesting/kvetching after 1 day I don't have much sympathy for her plight.

For her, not you.

people relax. Hey, here's a video from Shep Smith, yeah, that Shep Smith, from Faux "News". It is factual, reasoned, did I mention truthful and not at all politically biased.

It's communicable, FFS. Not easily, but still communicable.

Don't worry. That's a rhetorical question.

It's not nearly as small a distinction as you might think. I'm a nurse and I totally get where she is coming from and it is from a very unselfish place, as is common for nurses. She's actually trying to help limit the spread of fear and maybe even Ebola through this necessary stand. I stand with her.

I stay home for the littlest of sniffles.

If the official WHO decision is to quarantine, then they should quarantine, but Governor Christie is playing politics with Ebola and I think he needs to pay dearly for that. As well, there are very established quarantine facilities at almost any hospital and putting her where they put her was again, playing for politics.

If they play politics, then they need to pay to play. This is just fanning the fears of Americans who are really, really, chickenshit, with some notable exceptions.

Ebola didn't matter to anyone when it was confined to African villages. For the most part, it still is. It will not become an epidemic and your family will not likely ever be impacted. Ebola doesn't have what it takes to become an epidemic beyond it's lucky score of hitting some populated areas and it's still going to burn out. That's what Ebola does. On the meantime, the only silver lining is a vaccine company may decide this just became a money maker and get off their asses and get a vaccine. That is really the only thing that would make this idiocy worth anything.

Now H1N1 was set to decimate the human population and because of nothing but luck, we escaped that one. One day, one of them is going to get us. It won't be Ebola.

and then tell me he isn't fellating the public.

I'm not arguing against appropriate quarantine. But, I am arguing against not allowing Africans to fly to America. You want Ebola here, play that card.

Anyway, they are using her. So she should be paid. Compensated for Christie's idiocy and fearmongering.

And I also believe that TexAssistan is a model for healthcare, considering their rejection of the Medicaid extensions of the ACA.

And with Mr. Duncan being black and all, I have no doubt he was provided the best treatment a Texan could give.

Who knows, maybe you'll get to be falsely imprisoned, I mean quarantined, at the whim of a compassionate conservative like Christie.

I mean, that nurse's loss of freedom has no affect on you, so who cares right? Suck it up, right?

Your point that she's been with ebola victims for "such a long time" is just silly. People she was exposed to more than a month ago is simply irrelevant. OR should we all worry because of all those people we've been around who had the flu a few years back?

Throwing away people's rights. And I don't see what is uncivil about hoping you experience a loss of freedom you so willing would take from others. How is that uncivil?

MY goodness, Thank you.

We do need to be more careful. Mistakes galore, were made in the beginning. I absolutely and, and finally agree with you on something.

I'm sorry Mr. Duncan wasn't saved. That really sucks. We were over-confident and unprepared. Thankfully, we have corrected many of our missteps.

This is not Africa. Not to be a USA snob, but we do have excellent health care and emergency crews. We can handle this. I also wish Ebola was not here, but it is, we need to be reasonable and intelligent, and informed about it.

Self-monitoring really is sufficient. I know you don't trust that. That's fine. I hope in time, you will. It has worked. We cannot possible keep our country Ebola free at this point. The epidemic is completely out of hand. What we can do, is protect people safely, with information and education. We will care for those who are exposed. And we will keep Americans as safe as we can through monitoring.

It's scary, Ann, I know. But not nearly as scary as you believe.

is to keep potentially contagious people from traveling to other countries.

Had Mr. Duncan been required to delay his trip to America for 21 days, other Americans wouldn't have gotten infected. No, the hospital wasn't careful, but neither were people who granted him a visa.


rocktivity

So I support a high bar verses accidentally spreading Ebola into the mainstream. That said, as our techniques evolve successfully, we can taper back the standards.

Let's not forget, the OJ Jury was sequestered 9 months....

For the incineration of everyone who has been to west Africa? It makes about as much sense as the ridiculous quarantine without running water. They don't give a damn about her getting sick from lack of hygiene.

None of the governors involved in it could give a crap about the actual population. They only care about one thing 2016.

There is a difference between being appropriate cautious (and I am at least receptive to the idea that a 21 day quarantine for anyone who has directly cared for Ebola patients, based on the behavior under voluntary restrictions of 2 of the last 3 caregivers to be diagnosed with Ebola), and political theater.

If the inside of a hospital is good enough to safely care for someone with end stage Ebola, it certainly provides enough safety to isolate someone who was merely exposed.

I am as concerned as you are that people are treating the risk of Ebola as zero, unless those with Ebola are actively and uncontrollably ill with diarrhea and vomiting. There is a middle ground where the risk of transmitting an infection is low, but not zero - and as deadly as Ebola is, I believe people need to err on the side of assuming any sign of illness in someone exposed to Ebola IS Ebola until proven otherwise. 2 of the last 3 exposed healthcare workers ignored at least the early stage for 2-3 days before removing themselves from contact - and if people (particularly health care workers) cannot be trusted to remove themselves on the first symptom, then (at a minimum) more active monitoring needs to be done - with quarantine restrictions imposed at the first sign.

But - justifying the political circus that happened to this nurse for the sake of safety, when all that needed to be done (at most) was to put her in an isolation room in the hospital, plays into those who insist that there is NO risk until there are unmistakeable symptoms - and that anyone who believes otherwise is fear-mongering.

she was using her time, putting forth the effort and expense, taking a risk caring for those sick.

this is fuckin mind blowing. you are all that in compassionate, cause you are going to care about those around you.

this woman, that has been over there caring for sick.... does not give a fuck about getting people sick. she does not give a fuck about getting family sick. you are so superior to her, cause you would be al over staying in the tent, that selfish nasty woman. per your argument here.

you GET she is a NURSE, caring for those SICK, on a daily basis? that is her LIFE. caring for the sick

yet, you. oh, you. so much more compassionate and caring.

a real wtf wally world.

It's a 21 day quarantine, not death. Odd this nurse has no empathy for people who might fear getting it, while having enough empathy to go to affected African countries. Something's weird here.

Until I heard her talking on the radio, on my way home from work.

I don't think that the facts of the actual containment are being clearly shown (several posts above have clarified that she is not out in some parking lot, stranded with only a cell phone).

And her tone and attitude of "I know more than anyone else" just pissed me off...what arrogance when such a disease is involved. We're still learning and coming up with process and procedure...anyone coming from West Africa/the affected countries best expect some heavy scrutiny.

p.s...I read that CNN article at a link above...wow...arrogant and zero concern that she may have contracted the virus...SHE knows best.

Keep here confined.

Sounds like you are a cheerleader for Christie. This issue has certainly exposed a lot of right wing propaganda here.

Where doctors as well. Sorry, her rights do not trump the well being of a nation. I applaud her for what she was doing in Africa but we simply can't take the risk of a single person being infected because she chose to volunteer.

heroic she was while the "rest of the world did nothing" or some such garbage--the odd complaints about the "smugness" of airport employees who held her, the granola bar, oh the DRAMA...but she didn't reveal the fact that she in fact DID work for the CDC as a "disease detective" and has a master's degree. Someone who certainly understands the principle and value of quarantine. Not an ordinary bedside nurse, in fact someone very media-savvy, well-connected, and somehow has very prominent lawyers ready to go. This whole thing smells bad.

political system that consistently treats us like farm animals.

Absolutely. Someone needs to stand up to the fear-mongering going on about this disease and be real about how to truly contain it. If politicians like Christie really cared, him and his Republican buddies, they would be willing to spend the money on helping the countries that have the outbreak combat it there and contain it. And spend money on health care needed here in this country as well. But no, just scare the people and act like the hero when you don't know anything about what is really needed.

This is all bullshit and I hope she wins and makes a case for the whole country. We need some sanity here about this disease and not just fear-mongering. Remember, we have a history about this kind of thing. Remember when AIDS was the scary disease of the day. And people wouldn't touch or come near someone who had it? There are ways the disease is transmitted and it is not by being near someone who doesn't even have one single symptom and has tested negative already. That is just fact people. 24-hour news cycles and constantly scary reports ratchet up everyone's fears. That is their intention, not to actually control the disease.

I think he's proven that time after time after time.

And I think Christie should be required to go 21 days without a shower!!

That NBC crew had to go into mandatory quarantine after their cameraman became ill when they had minimal contact with him while he wasn't even very contagious yet everyone here was in an uproar that two of those people violated their home self-quarantine by going to a restaurant which made all of them have to do mandatory quarantine.

And those ten people that had minimal contact with Mr. Duncan that had to do home quarantine the family having to do mandatory quarantine.

What's different about this nurse? She cared for many extremely ill patients and patients that died of Ebola. Dr. Brantly became infected caring for Ebola patients while completely suited up and disinfected before PPE removal yet he got infected. The woman missionary wasn't even taking care of patients but just helping gare givers suit up and disinfecting them before PPE removal yet she became infected shortly after Brantly did. Doctors Without Borders despite their extra cautious suiting up and disinfecting had 16 DWB workers infected as well as of a week or two ago. Caregivers are the most at risk as they work with patients that are highly contagious, and despite their precautions some still get infected.

So, what makes this nurse so special that her quarantine is horrible when no one cared about all those others put into quarantine.

As for her testing negative, well yeah, she doesn't have symptoms so of course she would. Someone just posted a couple of days ago that they usually have to be in the third day of symptoms before they'd likely get a positive test reading and even longer.

that our government actually cares about and values and hopes to keep happy. The CDC is antsy over quarantining because they don't want to do it EQUALLY. There's even been people here who say that doctors and nurses should be allowed their "freedom" because they know how to take their own temperatures and hold licenses. So your ability to avoid quarantine (and I still think it should be done at home if at all possible) comes down to your education level, your profession, and your value to the CDC/NIH. NOT your actual risk of having been infected. (And as we've seen, the highest risk for infection seems to be...those same licensed professionals who work with lots of ebola spurting everywhere...but they know best and deserve to roam at large, and we "ignorants" should automatically trust them not to endanger the rest of us...)

hold her in an unheated tent in a garage, without running water to wash her hands, without a flush toilet, without sunlight, without a shower for 21 days. Christie lied about her being obviously ill.

Do not mess with an Ebola nurse. She more than anyone else knows the disease. She is asymptomatic and is not a danger to anyone. Therefore, she can go home and self monitor. All this fear mongering these health care workers is typical right wing scare tactics. No one has contracted Ebola from Amber Vinson who flew on a plane with a slight fever. It goes to show that the CDC guidelines were correct after all, but we never hear that from the media or admitted to by the fearmongers who post all over the place.

Divide and conquer sill works.

This is not only about her rights which some question, but about SCIENCE and FACTS versus fear and hysteria.

Posting a pay wall site as your reference does the discussion no good at all....

They insert a pay wall to links to their site.

Just capture the title and google it. You'll get there. But the poster wasn't likely aware it was there, since when you get there via a google link there is no pay wall.

Ms. Hickox, who worked for five weeks with Doctors Without Borders, has also criticized the conditions of her quarantine at University Hospital in Newark. She is being housed in a tent inside a building adjacent to the hospital and she said she has a hospital bed, “a port-a-potty type restroom, no shower facilities and no connection with the outside world except my iPhone.”

(From the article you linked to)

From the only picture I can find of the outside, it resembles the inside of a garage: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/quarantined-nurse-blasts-gov-christie-doctor-article-1.1987584?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nydnrss%2Fnews%2Fnational+%28News%2FNational%29

If it is what it appears to be, most garages are unheated.

I don't have a particular problem with a quarantine (given that 2 of the 3 health careworkers known to be exposed to Ebola, who later contracted Ebola, ignored their first symptoms and continued to have contact with the public). I do have significant problems with how this one was implemented. Find a room in the hospital with running water and a toilet. (And, as for internet on the plane - it is still not universally available, and she would not necessarily have had a reason to go hunting for conditions on the ground.

There is no reason they could not have put her in isolation inside the hospital. Every other patient in the US with actual Ebola has been cared for inside the hospital - she does not have Ebola and was not displaying any symptoms. If hospitals can isolate an actual infection at its peak, they can quarantine someone who is not displaying symptoms. Unless you are suggesting that Ebola patients should be treated in tents without running water (and possibly lacking temperature control). (Her first temperature reading was a skin sensor, which always needs to be confirmed by a more accurate reading - which showed her actual temperature was

In the US, if we are going to have forced quarantines, they need to be consistent with the living standards and medical care in the US - which doesn't include being placed in a tent without running water, and possibly without heat.

As I've said, I don't have a problem with quarantines - or at least more strictly enforced monitoring - for people who have been treating Ebola patients. Doctors without Borders already recommends no return to work for 21 days, so anyone going over there to work with them should expect the additional time off. I do have a problem with creating political theater on the backs of people returning from caring for Ebola patients.

As for her attitude - she's got good reason to be pissed, so I'm taking what she says with a grain of salt.

Yes, I think she does know better than a big percentage of people in the US. Her post grad studies in epidemiology might help also.

Cuomo and Christie are not that bright and this policy is stupid

I mean really, how many times have you posted how much this woman should be put into a hermetically sealed mayonaise jar on funk and wagnall's front porch?

At least now you can stop worrying for the GOOD people of Jersey.

FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

since they voted for this Don.

Just a month or so before I looked into suing anyone. She better hope she is 100% free of Ebola or it will be she that is taken to the cleaners.

turns out to test positive for Ebola?