so that a kid could find it and play with it. He then proceeded to play cops and robbers with a real gun.

Bury him under the prison.

His second mistake was not stopping the child as the child pointed the gun at him, even though it was a play gun. Children should always be taught never to point any gun, real or toy, at another person. Every gun should be treated as loaded.

That's what my Dad told me. Always assume a gun is loaded.

I showed them my two guns when they were little and explained that only grown-ups should handle them. That was about twelve years ago, and they've still never shown any interest in guns. I really think parents should be open and honest with kids about the guns in the house so that it won't be some sort of hidden secret that piques the curiosity. Just my two cents.

But what I learned about always assuming a gun is loaded has stayed with me all these years. I can never understand how that gets lost on some gun owners.

gets their jollies out of pointing and shooting guns at each other (paint ball and air soft rifles). Even replicas without balls (Civil War reenactments).

What an idiotass.

not....

another unfortunate child murder by and idiot with a gun.

I didn't know it was loaded... fucking moron.

NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING UNLESS YOU INTEND TO USE IT?

Those are the first two rules that came to mind.

you remove the effing clip. He should be charged with murder for pointing a gun at a three year old & pulling the trigger.

It's not the toddlers fault that a drunken idiot murdered him. It's not the toddlers fault this man is so careless/stupid/irresponsible that he should never have been allowed to own a gun in the first place. He murdered a tot. Hopefully he will do the honorable thing and eat a bullet, save the courts the time. If not, put this piece of human excrement in jail and throw away the key.

Since there was no intent to kill or injury the child, negligent homicide would be the correct charge.

Yes, he killed the toddler. No, he did not murder him.

The Four Gun Safety Rules exist for a reason.
http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/colonel-jeff-cooper-carry-conditions-and-firearm-safety/

in the state of MT is 20 years and a $50,000 fine. Hopefully they throw the proverbial book at him.

Review of the underlying statute shows Montana does NOT have 1st or 2nd degree murder, but "Deliberate" and "Negligent" Homicide.

just leave it at that.

hey that was what I was going to say. These titles are always too long.

about the "one in the chamber." Negligent homicide my ass, this was willful homicide. he saw, he aimed he pulled the trigger.

There is no way in any situation that is a safe or sane thing to do. Fuck this murderer and all like him with their bullshit excuses.

They're TOOLS OF DEATH. THAT is what they were/are conceived for. They're not icy porch steps - to aid in getting you into your home - they're not a vehicle - designed primarily for transportation. They're TOOLS OF DEATH. Mix these tools with stupid and/or juveniles and bad things are bound to happen. It's NOT ABOUT your dad teaching you not to point it at someone - it's not about: you thought it wasn't loaded - it's about an instrument who's sole mission is to damage flesh to the point where death or severe injury is the desired result.

Rattlesnakes are great for rodent control. How about turning one or two loose in your home for that purpose? Guns in the house make as much sense and are just as dangerous.

The constant attempts to downplay every death as an "accident". When in fact, the gun served its purpose: TO KILL.

All the, "well, he shouldas," and "my daddy always taught me" won't bring that child back. Gunners will allow that THIS guy is now one of the handful of people who should not have a gun because____ or ____ BUT THE CHILD IS STILL DEAD.

The gunners motto: "Your dead kids don't trump my rights!"

as well as RSO's (range safety officers)

1. Treat all guns as loaded until you have personally made sure they are not.

2. never point a gun at anything you are not prepared to destroy.

3. laser rule, make sure the bbl is pointed in a safe direction at all times.

4. be sure of your target and what is behind it.

the poor kid. They all think they are "responsible gun owners."

probably passed a shooting course. Isn't it obvious "gun safety" is just words gunners use in their obfuscation attempts. Good guys with guns and with gun safety training are just as dangerous as bad guys with guns.

I sure hope the gun is ok.

Drunk people and guns are a terrible mix.

its project to flood the market with arms and is absolutely and in no way a cynical way to simultaneously cover their asses and train kids about guns!"

are why I believe everybody should take a gun safety course as a youth.

People Control, Not Gun Control

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.).
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, rent scuba equipment, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

But of course, to some folks, they're an intolerable infringment on "Mah Conistintutional rights!"

. . . so long as we have a Supreme Court that interprets the Second Amendment as conferring an individual right to bear arms that is independent of service in any militia, your idea about licensing presents a legal problem. There is, so far as I know at least, no legal precedent for licensing a constitutional right, and I seriously doubt the Supreme Court, as currently constituted, would allow such a law to stand.

licences, permits, and certificates are already legal and common. My license does not restrict any gun or weapon - you could have a nuclear bomb with my "license". There is no national database, no point-of-sale background check. Current laws are already more complex and cumbersome than a license.

You would have to jump through hoops to get your license. You present a valid license to go hunting, buy bullets, enter the shooting range, etc. Simple. When you renew you'll be checked for crimes, etc. You have an interview or references or whatever your state requires to get the license. You have proof of insurance (just like an auto) as your state requires. You take safety classes in order to get the license (just like a carry permit).

The ONLY thing that different is that ALL gun possession requires a license. Otherwise, you can't easily buy guns, ammo, or go shooting without the license. If you have a license it's no problem and you don't even have to go through a check of any kind.

Since there is no restriction on guns of any kind, there is no 2nd Amendment challenge any more than we've already resolved.

Appreciate the waiting period, too. That would head off a few crimes of passion.

Personally, I think this guy should be clanged with the maximum sentence.

In the particular part of Pennsylvania where I grew up, virtually every family had one or more hunters, and my family was no exception. There was quite a variety of rifles and shotguns, each of which was chosen for its suitability for hunting a particular type of game. But here's the thing: under NO circumstances were we EVER permitted to bring a gun into the house or into a vehicle without checking AND DOUBLE CHECKING that it had been completely unloaded. What's more, when my siblings and I were younger, my dad forbade us from pointing even so much as a toy gun at each other (an exception was made for squirt guns). And we got in serious trouble if he saw us doing so, even with a gun that was obviously a toy. I thought, as a kid, that the old man got a little carried away with himself on that point. But as an adult, I totally get what he was trying to do, to instill in us the kind of respect necessary to safely handle a potentially lethal weapon. So it simply astounds me when I hear stories like this.

Rule #1: Always assume the damn gun is loaded.
Rule #2: If you have any questions, see Rule #1.

Last edited Tue Oct 28, 2014, 01:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I wish politicians would stop posturing over 1 ebola death and focus on the tens of thousands of gun deaths in the U.S. every year. Drunken morons should not have guns.

Which was the main argument for Prohibition. The counter argument was that Alcohol was NOT the problem, but the abuse of Alcohol. The same can be said of firearms, the problem is NOT firearms but the abuse of firearms.

At least two red state legislatures passed a law forbidding doctors to question and/or talk about gun risks with their patients who have children.

No matter how unloaded you think a gun is, it's loaded. Always. Until you've completely disassembled the thing, it's a loaded gun. Always.

You, Mr. Hawk, are a moron of the highest order. Drunk doesn't excuse it. "I thought it was unloaded" doesn't excuse it. Nothing excuses it. You performed grade-A prime stupid, and it cost a young boy his life. Someone up above said that in Montana, the maximum penalty for negligent homicide is 20 years. I hope you spend every single minute of it thinking about what a spectacular moron you are, and how you can never, ever repent for what you've done.

EVERY GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!!

Also a fuckin gun is not a damn toy! And never, never, NEVER point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot!

I hope they lock that bastard up for 30 years or so, fucker is too stupid to be running around free anyway, obviously!

I'm sorry but we have to be the most ignorant dumb bastards on the face of the earth! Not only for letting any brain dead mouth drooling psychopath have every right to arm himself to the teeth with lethal automatic killing machines that are far beyond his capacity to understand...BUT...

What kind of EVIL society stands by while innocent 3 year olds are gunned down like dogs in our streets!?!?!?!?!?

"I was cleaning my gun." What kind of moron points a real gun, loaded or unloaded, at a child and pulls the trigger?