or putting a target on officer wilson's back and his own. disgusting. or, reason to harm protestors. or, to defy the department of justice.

any longer to peaceful non-violent protest or is it time to consider taking up armed struggle? With Jackson prepared to put the killer cop Wilson back on the street with a renewed license to kill, I see the possibilities of non-violent protest narrowing quickly to the vanishing point.

Wake up, officers have been abusing and killing people (especially the young and mentally ill) in increasing numbers. They are completely out of control and those that excuse their actions are as guilty as they are.

I don't appreciate thuggish behavior by anyone but it especially frightens and maddens me when done by officers of the law. It must be stopped now.

Ferguson, far from being the beginning is simply the last straw (and yet it still goes on).

Do not be an apologist for bullies in uniform because they are the worst kind.

reports (2010 Stats), Homicide is the leading cause of death for black makes for three age categories:

15-19 50.4%
20-24 49.2%
25-34 35.1%

Source: http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2010/LCODBlackmales2010.pdf

However, as the new your times reports: "By the F.B.I.’s figures, there were between 378 and 414 police homicides in the five years ending in 2012, the most recent year available. Those numbers, however, include only justifiable homicides without reference to race; mistaken or unjustified killings are not reported. Years of academic research indicate that the actual total is considerably higher."

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/31/sunday-review/race-and-police-shootings-are-blacks-targeted-more.html

So even if the higher number (414) over a five year period, and even if every single one was an illegal police murder of a black male between 15 and 34, that total number is far less than a rounding error.

But what are the base numbers? From the 2010 census, a bit over 6.1 Million black males 15-34.

Source: http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

So if police murdered 414 (go ahead and compress it into just one year), the it's 414/6,100,000 = 0.000068. Now what are the numbers killed by other than police? Go ahead and calculate it yourself.

If you really want to save lives, the place to concentrate your efforts are not on the police - unless it's for more police to stop the overwhelming majority of killers of young black men.

Sadly, your words will be lost on the few individuals here with an agenda that does not include peaceful co-existence with law enforcement.

with this?


?w=1100

it is truly sad how clueless some on here are. Some on here will not admit that executioner wilson is a murderer and is not deserving to be called a human being, but a rabid garbage dump dog.

that's a defensive weapon.

But you just proved my point. You are practically salivating about this. Rather than admit that our system of justice did its job (if there is no indictment), you are almost eager for the violence....or at least that is how you present yourself.

with your fearful response on thinking what the response(s) will be to a likely travesty of justice. This is not a country for ALL people. If/when executioner wilson walks our system of justice, when it comes to minorities, will have done what was expected of it. Won't be shocked, surprised. Just sick and goddamn tired of the BS passing for justice and wilson apologists. You can feel justice was served and I will say, well..............

Last edited Mon Nov 17, 2014, 07:29 PM - Edit history (1)

the numbers, the BS question, "are blacks targeted more"? Give me a break on the enabling the lie that it's not true. All statistics are suspect when the experience of people those statistics allegedly represent trumps those made up numbers. I am truly sick of the people who believe numbers can eradicate experience. IT DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE PEOPLE! While there are homicides in the black community, police brutality and racism is also a large factor in the black community, add the feelings of hopelessness, negative self image and defeat, that a potent mixture. Something the white community, with it's homicides does not suffer, with it's obvious privilege(s).

jail for life? I'm not. Why is a terrorist taking his son to work any different than a anyone else taking along their kid to plan & commit crimes? Any fool realizes that the probability of harm to your child goes up considerably compared to leaving him at home.

trusting in our system of 'laws' and 'justice' when that same system is being gamed by local players with motives and incentives to sabotage the system:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-ferguson-tragedy-becoming-a-farce/2014/09/12/e52226ca-3a82-11e4-9c9f-ebb47272e40e_story.html

Until you can justfiy McCulloch's handling of this case before the Grand Jury, you might want to stand in front of the mirror when you utter the phrase 'stupid talk'.

... (though I'd bet you any amount it was), cops don't get to "beat the shit" out of anyone for "smarting off" and they damn sure don't get to be judge, jury and executioner because their pride was injured.

This guy can think that the grand jury's decision will be the end of this, it won't.

You counsel us to stop "stupid talk" and suggest letting the law take it's course.

The law has taken it's course in the St. Louis area since before the Civil War, and that course hasn't changed.

At the same time that you attempt to placate us with your high-handed, condescending rhetoric of balance, you call Mr. Brown a "perp"; that sounds fair and balanced to me (no it doesn't).

The Fergs are hoping for a "lynch mob" as you put it, so they have an excuse for more repression and erosion of civil rights, but that fantasy of yours and theirs isn't at all likely. Black people are not stupid, no matter what you racists want to believe. Like all oppressed people through-out history, they realize that a mob can't over-run a cohesive force of well-armed, government supported troops, no matter how poorly trained and disciplined those soldiers may be.

Now, I'd say there's a good chance that some sniper-trained young person (and there's plenty of those around due to the Republican Wars) might paint the re-installed killer-cop's windshield with his brains. I don't condone it, of course, but I certainly understand the motivation and cannot honestly say I condemn it either.

So, "modDem99", if that's all you have to offer you can take your patronizing bullshit back where it came from, and let your 1st post be your last.

We really don't need to be schooled by someone lacking credentials or credibility.

the subject myself from here on out.

I must concede the overarching wisdom in your sentence:

for your gracious post.

It counts for a lot.

and phony objectivity is transparent. He shot an unarmed person in the back. Simple.

If he was not a white cop who shot a minority in a racist county he would have been arrested.

You don't seem to care much about your credibility.

or shot from the front with his hands in the air in the surrender position. You pick. The guy belongs in jail, and positively would be if it the shooter was black.

Also, no gunshot residue anywhere on Brown's body means Wilson lied about the incident in SUV which was supposedly the catalyst for Wilson's roid rage. In the absence of that incident there was no reason for Wilson to shoot at Brown except that he was just fucking pissed off, and had no qualms about shooting a black kid.

My credibility is rock solid, except to those whose ideology is upset when they see an authority held accountable.

Gee, imagine my shock that someone in St. Louis is willing to misquote a pathologist in order to spin the story against dead guy who is not around to tell his side of the story.

I don't care about anyone's "interpretation" of the autopsy at this stage of the process.

You stated unequivocally that Brown was shot from behind or while his hands were raised in a typical surrender position. You also unequivocally stated there was no GSR on Brown. These assertions are contradicted by the official autopsy. They are simply you opinion, based possibly on your preconceived notions, your own interpretation of the family's autopsy, or something else. They certainly are not uncontested facts.

You can believe any assertions or notions you wish. Ignoring actual evidence that doesn't fit your theories, however, is a dangerous and foolish game. If everything were as neat and clear as you claim, there would already be both a state and federal indictment. The fact that the state indictment is still questionable, and that leaks indicate that a federal indictment is not feasible, should indicate to you that your perception of the (thus far released) evidence may not be as determinative as you suggest.

wishful view of the information jumble.

For example: " If everything were as neat and clear as you claim, there would already be both a state and federal indictment."
That's bullshit. This DA has already let obvious cop murders go unprosecuted. And made an undeniable career out of being blind to hair trigger cops. I have zero hope that any justice will be served. He will have no problem steering the grand jury to not indict. The game is fixed. I know that.

I will never believe that anyone could reach through a high SUV window, across the lap of a trained cop, and draw his weapon out of his holster, never. It's a desperate, fairy tale story which is so obviously phony that I know if in some fairytale land a trial were ever held, that story would be re-jiggered by the defense to avoid having to tell that preposterous lie in court.

I also will never believe that Brown decided to run away, then just had a change of heart for no reason, and decided to turn back and charge a cop who already had the drop on him with a loaded and already aimed gun. It stinks of another desperate excuse to cover up an unjustified slaying by a cop that in my opinion was roid raging, based on his choice not to subdue the guy, but instead to slaughter him. We will never know, of course, because in these questionable cases they always test the dead guy for drugs, but not the killer.

So yes. Due to that fact that the defendants and his advocates controlled the chain of custody of all of the evidence in the case (something which is preposterous in itself), some information must be inferred based on whatever shreds of information can be ascertained. And when the information may have been massaged by the highly biased people leaking it, it will be discounted if it doesn't pass the smell test.

But I only need to be certain of one lie to know that there is disinformation being circulated. And I am.

he was shot in back and front, multiple times. What else do you need? Wilson's motive? Take a guess, while I guess at your motive(s). Too many witnesses saw what really happened. Garbage dump dog, executioner wilson, has crafted his story around all the racist heresay on twitter, FB and what he and the chief of police could concoct. Now wilson is saying he knew Micheal was the guy from the alleged store robbery, whereas at the time of the shooting he did not. Please I know there are people out there living in a la la world that think some memories are short and that some can't smell a big pile of BS when it is right in front of them. You're woefully wrong.

you're from that area. None of you analysis is surprising, rather expected really. We've had a lot of cop murder enablers here since this happened, I'll add you to the list. People are tired of state sanctioned murders/executions by the 'brownshirts'. A perp for walking in the street? You ease up on your approval of wilson murdering unarmed black males and females, young usually, male usually, but not always. Your law is the answer BS is becoming stale and old. Where was the due process of the law for the unarmed 'perp' Micheal? Who was shot multiple times. Always blame the victim. White flight is usually because of skin color, the MYTH that black people are more inclined to committing crimes and to be inferior to whites. And of course just general, generations old, systemic and institutionalized amerikkkan racism, period. Get off you high horse and quit being offensive to a whole race of people. Please. You're not fooling anyone with your 'rational' answer.

one word comes to mind, PITIFUL!!!!!

think that works in all the countries that have a police state today? It was certainly the philosophy of many police states of the past. In all those countries where citizens were disappeared? In all those countries where they were detained with no trials because the police force was working to the dictator? In Germany so many years ago.

I hope that armed rebellion is not the only option that we are left with but what do you suggest when the law is not in the right? When all across the USA the police hold themselves above the law. All those countries I mentioned above should just stop protesting and let them set up their fascist states. Is that what you are suggesting?

The killing of unarmed often innocent victims and other abuses by the police in the USA is rampant. If we do not stop it now when are we going to stop it?

I suggest you find one of the lists of all the people who have been killed by police or vigilantes in the last 4 or 5 years and ask your self if jaywalking, shopping in WalMart, walking home from the store, selling cigarettes from your own pack and many other minor crimes should carry a death penalty administered by the police without any judge and jury. No matter what happened Michael Brown deserved a jury trial not a death sentence. Also this would not be the first cover up by a police force. We seldom find the police guilty of anything anymore. And unfortunately I think that is one of the problems - we have given them a license to kill under almost any kind of situation. I think the fact that they left his body lay uncovered for so many hours speaks volumes. Also the use of their precious military equipment against US citizens.

All I know about the St. Louis is that the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church headquarters is located there. What I am seeing from watching this incident on live stream from the beginning is that there is a real problem with hate in this area. You did not talk about the hate in your op and that is the problem. The underlying problem is being totally ignored and the police force is supporting the haters.

Thank you for a well-considered response.

and "the law" is selectively enforced...that's the problem. cops keep getting away with abuse and murder because "the law" routinely excuses them for their actions. it's time to put these bastards in JAIL. and yes, this IS a continuation of the same struggle we've been engaged in for centuries in this country. Black people lives have NEVER meant SHIT in this country.

History has proven in the last hundred years that more positive, successful outcomes come from continual Non-Violent protests. That's why the authorities like to sabotage things by inciting or provoking violence.

passively awaiting the thud of the jackboot upon their necks.

I understand what you're saying but would like to counter with the words of a very wise man from back in 1857 :

the jackboots going into Ferguson and committing a 'Nanking Massacre' right here in amerikkka. I truly can given the recent spate of white cop/unarmed black male executions and the majority of amerikkkan people giving the RW a go ahead for these types of actions, this last Nov 4 2014. Ten four on the 'Warsaw Ghetto Uprising'. Sometimes, it's not that far yet in this country, people just have nothing to lose.

50+ years......nothing yet.....all gains gotten by the non violent approach have been turned back by that so-called balanced SCOTUS understanding of what amerikkka stands for along with the fascist racists roaming the halls of congress like ravening beasts!. A MAJORITY of amerikkkan citizens said on Nov. 4 2014 that this is the type of government it wants. There was NO close numbers to indicate a different type of government desired. I know what some are afraid of.........well......... Bunches and bunches of people better start standing up in towns like ferguson, sanford, cincinatti, NYC, all races, sexes, creeds, religions whatever and start shouting to high heaven, ENOUGH!!!!!!!

but a little transparent.

They have no say over whether or not Wilson returns to active duty...

~ but, i am sure the doj asked the governor and the head of le in ferguson to do whatever possible to maintain the peace. they'll be damned if they take any kind of direction from more reasonable and less bigoted folks than themselves.

and that would be the smart thing to do, but so far, Jackson hasn't shown any smarts at all throughout this ordeal.

by the grand jury the police dept will probably have to reinstate him or it could open themselves up to a lawsuit by the officer.

Take exception to such a termination. They'd sue everyone and their brother's pants off, and win easily.

If he is not indicted, Wilson will likely transfer to another department. He probably can no longer be effective in Ferguson due to publicity, and he would have concerns over his safety.

just give the killer cop a renewed license to kill, eh?

teaching the black community a few more lessons about who is in charge. stupid is as stupid does.

to put my own ass on the line, but I sure as hell will understand if they do take up armed struggle.

If he's not indicted, there is no legal justification to get rid of him. If you don't like it, blame the police union.

It doesn't matter what I think, what you think, or what anyone else thinks. They can't get rid of him without justification.

You're spot on, there are procedures that have to be followed, and if they're not, the city can be sued by Officer Wilson and he will win.

Even if they don't find enough evidence to indict?
Sorry, that's not how the law works.

The only thing that matters now is who gets to be on that grand jury.

but that may not be the opinion of the Grand Jury.

So yes, they may fail to indict. The system is rigged from the get-go.

That's a viable explaination also if they vote to no bill this.

Ferguson is a small part of the county.

Is 70.3% white and 23.3% black according to the 2010 census.

of ferguson being black, this could be called judicial RW gerrymandering?

The had no way of knowing they would have a case from Ferguson

and therefore, that is the state jury pool. The state grand jury appropriately reflects the demographics of the county.

In fact, in most of America, the typical jurisdiction for serious state felonies is the county-level. Unlike Congressional districts, county boundaries and borders do not normally change, if ever, regardless of census or change in composition of the state legislature. Accordingly, how is this "judicial RW gerrymandering?"

To the extent any legally-recognized county-level improprieties exist, a special prosecutor could have been appointed by the governor, although the jury pool would still have been St. Louis County, not the Town of Ferguson.

The DOJ is also investigating, and if they have uncovered actual evidence of a federal civil rights crime (which basically requires proof of an unlawful homicide plus additional factors), a federal grand jury would also be convened. Nevertheless, leaks indicate that the DOJ has not discovered sufficient evidence to indict, or at least have a good faith belief that they can obtain a conviction.

Note that the St. Louis County District Attorney McCulloch, Governor Nixon, and Attorney General Holder are all Democrats.

that last request for note is very obvious as what kind of democrat they, nixon and mcculloch are. Cute throwing in holder. Snakes in the grass is more of what nixon and mccolic are like. Are you pointing this out to dangle in my or other democrats face or are you reminding folks that democrats can be just as racist as RW racists? Just because nixon, mcculloch call themselves democrats doesn't mean a damn thing and they have and will continue to prove their hollowness. They are the kind of democrats that have been a thorn in the side of all decent democrats all the way up to the WH for as long as I have been voting. Look I know where your loyalty to wilson stands. Your right, but loyalty to a racist pig is not something commendable. Nixon and mccolic talk the talk but as democrats they are garbage dump dogs of the worst and nastiest sort, the rabid type. The fix is in. Wilson will walk free and live to kill again. Many people will celebrate. Should make a lot of people here and other places happy. I hope they celebrate their happiness with drunken revelry for as long as it lasts. You have a good one. I won't be responding about this upcoming travesty of amerkkkan justice anymore. This country has always been the hypocritical mess that it is and it's just getting worse as the last election indicated.

What evidence passes legal muster and gets presented in court can be very different from what appears in the press. High profile cases such as this often have alot of supposed information in the press which does not meet strict legal requirements. Comments to reporters are not made under the Penalties of Perjury etc.

Juries matter.

Which 'rules' are going to magically disappear?

The legalities of contracts perhaps? Union bargaining agreements? Standards and requirements to indict in a grand jury?

Maybe you just go as many times as you need to get a verdict you like?

rebut it, I really have very little interest in reading one word further of anything you have to say about this case:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-ferguson-tragedy-becoming-a-farce/2014/09/12/e52226ca-3a82-11e4-9c9f-ebb47272e40e_story.html

Have a good day.

The Department CAN find that he used poor judgment and over-reacted whether he is determined to have broken the law or not. That is sufficient grounds for dismissal, especially if he has a record of citizen's complaints.

Also, the FOP nor any other police union are as powerful as you think.

A lot of odd-minded folks want to blame union activity for police administrators failing to perform their jobs, but those are folks that want to castigate unions and/or excuse officer culpability. Are you one of those, or merely misinformed?

Cops get fired easily if they don't play to the whims of powerful. That city's government is rotten to the core

he's a cop.....they wear them every day.

Seriously?

the only place this KILLER COP lives in is your mind.

of hatred, bigotry and the kkk. no more sacrificing people based on the color of their skin. i truly hope peace will prevail.

few would say that it had justice.

you are just NAILING it!!!!!! History is repeating itself, amerikkka. Nov 4, 2014. The start of the racist, facist overthrow of this 'democracy.

matches on the gasoline at certain key points. This one takes the cake, imho.

Odd the same Righties who are advocating Wilson's due process are the same ones who want to deny other Union members especially teachers their due process and even their right to have a strong Union.

I was just thinking this.

As someone who lives near Ferguson...

1). KSDK is currently in a labor dispute with the IBEW, hence I have turned off that station at the suggestion of the Union.

2). While it may be the case that the Officer will be re-instated I believe it unwise of the Chief to discuss the matter, although I suspect it would be standard procedure to bring the officer back if no wrong doing is found by the Grand Jury.

3). I have heard many, many rumors floating about and I guess we will simply wait to see what happens.

with that idea.

backed by the national guard and that 'bluedog' DINO of a governor with KKK help would gleefully slaughter the protestors of Ferguson's racist policies, no doubt. Yet, sometimes "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose". No doubt. Take that "idea" for what you may.

The bungling on this has been amazing. Putting him back on the street invites continuing disturbances. Get him a job in Wyoming. Or he can work security in the oil fields in the Dakotas. He and his family need to get out of St. Louis/Ferguson no matter what happens. No matter how non-violent the demonstrations are, he is a target. With all the national guard surrounding the situation, everyone needs to stay home.

they had better assign him to desk duty. He's unlikely to score any more kills as a dispatcher.

Somehow I doubt he would want to return to duty in Ferguson, though. He already has a target on his back.

i sure as hell would not want him in my neighborhood.

Violence in a America is not evenly distributed- most places are very safe.

They are typical Americans and the typical American is pretty peaceful.

and then there are other way you can say things. All of the statements, from officials in St Louis/Ferguson sound more as if to incite anger than to advocate peace.

A smart chief might have been reviewing and taking action toward dismissing the officer, if not indicted. I seem to recall the officer didn't complete a police report on the Brown shooting. I suspect there were other actions he took which broke protocol. The chief should have been working on this the last few weeks.

Instead.....we are waiting with open arms.....

I don't believe they could try any harder to alienate people than they are doing.

I'm sure that'd go over great with the union...

I suspect that, on the advice of his lawyer, he stayed within the legal bounds of what was required for reporting and not a smidge more.

Ethically you may think that he should have laid it all out but legally I suspect, but don't know for sure, that he is covered.

Just because a jury thinks insufficient evidence exists to charge a cop doesn't mean the cop is fit to serve. That's exactly what the Ferguson cops are trying to establish here, that no criminal charges equals no wrongdoing. That's bullshit.

Preferably one that the union wouldn't immediately destroy with a lawsuit...

There appears to be sufficient evidence for a police chief to say:

"Hey, there may not be enough evidence to indicate a criminal act, but what this officer did and how he did it raises serious questions for me about his fitness to serve. That's why I have called an investigation into his fitness to serve."

That may or may not lead to his firing, which the union may or may not choose to grieve if he is fired, as is their right under the collective agreement.

is a total idiot following a script that amerikkka has been writing for 200 years plus. Some people are more equal than others and with our guns, tanks, national guard soldiers, DINO governors and racist grand juries there is nothing we will let you do about.

caricature generating piece of software.

If the jury comes back and declares that there is insufficient evidence to charge Wilson, then this is not a declaration of "innocence", it simply means there is insufficient evidence to charge Wilson.

Even if this happens, why wouldn't the chief want an investigation to look into the fitness of this cop to serve the community, given his behaviour in this case?

Or is the laying of criminal charges the only thing that can show a lack of fitness to serve?

That would mean that as long long as a cop isn't criminally charged, everything is okay. This certainly sets a very low bar for determining fitness to serve.

raising them here, even if I think you may be crediting Jackson unduly with himself being fit to serve

I saw elsewhere that the St. Louis County DA McCulloch has had six other felony cases dismissed where Wilson was the arresting officer because Wilson is refusing to appear on the court date. No one as far as I had know has said "WTF?" about that curious manifestaton of dereliction of duty.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/drug-case-dropped-when-darren-wilson-fails-to-show/article_e2c733f5-70cf-58a4-952b-d1047e7ff091.html

N.B. Readers are advised to avoid the racist and white supremacist cesspool that constitutes the comments section of the above article.

represent what amerikkka has become, again, culminating on Nov 4 2014. There is A LOT of that ignorance being shown just about everywhere in amerikkka now. No shock, no surprise, these types are clueless as to what peace and equal justice means. Lost, completely without conscience. No better than garbage dump dogs.....

will suspend your posting privileges for 24-48 hours with no explanation. OTOH, if you make overtly racist statements, those are apparently just fine with the FB crowd (which somehow jointly administers the comments section of that website).

Long story short, make racist statements - no problem. Call out someone's racism - problem.

Some days it seems like it's almost not worth it any longer.

don't sweat it, the chickens are coming home to roost.

Now Facebook is run by RW racists? You need to take this shit to open mic night, there is a serious career fro you in comedy my friend.

Last edited Mon Nov 17, 2014, 08:14 PM - Edit history (1)

calls a racist a racist for a racist comment and they are banned and not the racist commenter, yeah good presumption. I do open mic and have fun slapping racist pigs down while people are laughing. Yeah, thanks for the tip.... my friend.