but won't say the name because it's that person's "story to tell"... Makes perfect sense

I find it fascinating how so many people across such a wide swath of the entertainment industry were able to sit on an "open" secret for so long...

Although the timing of so many people coming forward after the SoL has expired is suspect to me, at least...Just like the Brett Favre thing from some years back...

And while I am *NOT* saying this is the definitive case here (lest everyone start jumping on me), we all remember the daycare child abuse hysteria cases in the 80s and 90s, where in some trials the perps were accused of abusing hundreds of kids more than could have ever in their care before those accusations got thrown out (of course the perps were rightly sent to prison for the kids they undoubtedly did abuse)...

I guess I'm just saying I'd like to see some proof against Cosby, since anyone can make an accusation, and in the current climate be believed without question...Nobody at any point in time had a hidden camera, taped a phone call, kept a money trail, kept copies of letters or notes Cosby had written?? Even an official police complaint from the time would be something...If Cosby was really that notorious and everyone knew it, then NBC would likely have some internal documents among the boardroom brass...Muckrakers and private investigators in Hollywood have encyclopedia-sized dossiers on pretty much anybody who's somebody in L.A...I don't know how one would go about trying to subpoena those files, but I'm just saying Bill Cosby isn't some hardcore criminal mastermind who always covers his tracks flawlessly; there has to be something, somewhere...

Last edited Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:24 AM - Edit history (3)

Um . . . like circumstantial evidence?

Circumstantial evidence is evidence that a thinking, rational human being (which you seem to be, by the way--this is NOT a personal attack; merely a drive-by comment) is allowed to mull over.

Consider the statistical possibility that seven--I mean nine--no, ten--hold on, eleven--wait!--I think we're up to 13 now--or is it 14?--women of different races, backgrounds and professions over a 40+ year period would all tell remarkably similar stories regarding Bill Cosby's creepy M.O.: a drugged drink, rape and/or molestation, followed by not-so-veiled threats to their professional careers. (The ole "You'll never work again in this town if you get cosby--I mean cross-ways--with me.&quot

Just sayin'.

The point you make about statistical probability, while valid, can be seen as a double-edged sword -- Just to play devil's advocate, I might argue that what are the chances of ALL these women coming forward (the number will probably be over 30 next week) without a single one of them ever keeping one piece of forensic, financial, or whatever proof to nail Cosby with??

They were doped, molested and/or raped and threatened with job loss if they made accusations. At the best, it was a she said/he said case. Even now, rape charges are difficult to prove, even against an ordinary citizen. They are an ordeal to prosecute against a wealthy and/or famous man -- especially one who receives the adulation of thousands of fans, like a football player or a media celebrity.

Have you seen or read the interview given by Tamara Green, the first woman to come forward in support of the original accuser. She is a California lawyer, and not all that sympathetic a character by my lights, but what she said sounded eminently plausible. And since Ms. Green, thirteen more women have joined the group backing up the original accuser.

http://www.today.com/id/6945190/ns/today/t/second-cosby-accuser-why-she-came-forward/#.VHD_IMlvYjW

And that if forensic evidence didn't exist, there might be some paper trail of hush money or whatever...

If he was drugging all of these women, let's be honest -- Cosby must have been a bulk buyer for some illicit dealer...Try to trace that dealer? It's not like Cosby was picking up the goods in person, so there would have to have been a trusted assistant or gofer at some point in time...Has anybody tried to track down those people? Because I'd think they would have the ability to crack the whole thing wide open...If even the most cautious and paranoid of multimillionaire pro athletes can get their steroid/HGH/Molly/X/Adderall connections busted, Cosby can get his drug connection busted...

I'm just saying there is ALWAYS a link somewhere...And if these alleged victims want any sense of justice or closure, that should be where they start...

went back for seconds. lou ferrigno wife's account is really weird, she went on a double date then she says cosby's wife and her date left the room. that doesn't sound right at all.

Thank you, LeftyMom! It's not often I get a compliment around here these days...

What does "some MEN like him will never get it" mean? This has little to do with MEN and with "getting it". This has to do with reserving judgment until more is known. This spate of accusations is damning and seem more and more unlikely to be unfounded. But this has more to do with the process of forming judgments rather than what you have erroneously concluded is sexism and denial.

By your own wrong conclusions about MEN and others who have not yet jumped on the bandwagon, you make the case for not forming full judgments until more is known.

accusations -- and in light of the fact that Cosby has already settled the only cases brought against him?

Do you think he's going to come forward and make full disclosure?

What we know now is enough to convict him in the court of public opinion, since he was lucky enough to escape ever facing a criminal trial.

My point was that some need more than a few days and a flurry of news reports to assimilate information and form an opinion. That process is not gender specific, in my experience. I wish some had the patience to allow for the process, as it seems silly that there is so much hostility amongst those who will likely ultimately come to the same conclusion.

There have been plenty of miscarriages of justice throughout history due to a rush to judgment. I get that you've convicted him already, but just because someone does form judgments as quickly and thoroughly as some, doesn't mean he is a MAN who doen't get it.

Perhaps you can explain to me why Hurd running to the press with the secondhand accusation of an anonymous person (and clearly without that person's consent in describing an incident she didn't personally witness or verify) is a good thing? If the subject matter was about anything else, this would look like a betrayal...

Michelle Hurd describe how, at the beginning of her career, when she was a lowly stand in on The Cosby Show, how Mr. Cosby treating her inappropriately and threatening her not to talk. That was her motive for telling her own story and an even worse story told to her by a friend whom she would not identify.

do when they are confronted with the reality of women in this society facing issues like this. I said pointedly 'some men'. You edited my post taking out SOME and leaving it at men. THEN YOU ATTACKED ME WITH YOUR EDITED LIE. How many does it take for you to think that maybe bill cosby is a predator. 1000? 2000? Since when can't women come forward with what happened to them and do we have to have some sort of permission from someone? Betrayal? Betrayal happened when SOME MEN think they can rape any woman they want and not pay a price.

Ask the women around you if they were ever raped or hassled by a man at some point in their life. I don't know a single woman in my life that can say no. Ask your women if they have fear or concern walking out to their car in the dark. Maybe you will get a brief glimpse of what its like for ALL WOMEN in this world. And then again, no probably. You edited my remarks and attacked me. I don't see you getting it any time soon. Just saying because you asked.

Betrayal is when women hurt by men have to reach an unattainable standard of "proof" to be believed.

never met a woman who didn't have a rape or molestation in their history. Many times it was family, but also worked for somebody who was a blatant sexual harasser back in the day when it was not considered a crime. also I saw a psychiatrist at one time who tried to get to me. I played dumb and evaded him. It was before the days you could report these things. In the 70s people just told you to shut up. it wasn't a crime. that's why these women didn't report.

How about Michael Jackson, etc., etc.

Of course, any decent person would not. And THAT makes perfect sense.

It might have been better if she hadn't opened the door for media speculation, though. Remembering that there were mostly daughters makes me cringe.

and begged me not to tell. They were both over 18 (I WOULD have told were they under age) and swore me to secrecy. I would never dream of betraying their confidences.

You say you can't believe people were able to sit on an open secret for so long? How about Arnold Schwarzenegger. A couple dozen women came forward and accused him of harassment and his addle-brained wife came out to DEFEND HIM. He managed to win the governorship of California (not our finest moment) even when one of his mistresses was living in his house WITH the son she had by him.

Celebrities have, quite literally, gotten away with murder. They get away with pretty much anything they want to get away with. People are paid off and when they don't take the bribe, they're threatened. It's difficult enough to bring charges against a celebrity if you're just an average working Jane. EVERYBODY believes the celebrity and the victim is accused of just wanting to extort the poor, unsuspecting rich celebrity.

Fuck that, I'd stay in the closet too.

the Schwarzenegger example you point out - if it was consensual, it's no one's business.

I think this is one place we have gotten off track in our politics (vs., say, France or other European and other countries).

A politician's personal, consensual romantic escapades - consensual on BOTH sides - is not fodder for disdain, in my opinion.

Boinking your housekeeper is sexual harassment, consensual or not. He's in a position of power, she is not. He chose to exploit that relationship. Setting that aside, when Ahnie ran for governor, there were dozens of women who spoke out about how they were groped by him and NONE of that was consensual. Having a consensual affair outside of marriage is one thing. Taking advantage of a power position or of his celebrity to abuse women is a whole other thing.

to keep their mouth shut.

Last edited Sat Nov 22, 2014, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

an angle I never thought of.

seriously?

I suppose I should be angry, but I'm really just shaking my head in sadness.

Even as an adult, I used to enjoy catching a Cosby Show rerun every now and then. I know there's no suggestion he was into kids, but it creeps me out to just remember him in the father role. I really hope to never hear about incidents involving any of the young women (at the time) who played his daughters.

I wouldn't think this was just codeine (though that does cause vomiting in some), and I didn't think they had rohypnol in the 70s.

Just curious what prescription drug could be used for this, and whether a doctor gave it to him or he got it from a dealer. I think it'd help if a doctor could talk about what drugs could be put into powdered form in the 70s and what the effects would be, so that the likely drug can be named. I mean, I believe these women, but putting a likely prescription drug name to it rather than saying "drugged" generically would drive the point home even more.

"Fortunately" I just had teenagers and fully grown men try to get me rip roaring drunk while I was a teenager with Long Island Iced Teas and other mixed drinks that just seemed like punch or coca cola with a splash of liquor in it. That was the standard rapist drug of choice when I was growing up. I implore my girls to stick to wine and beer (in the inevitable experimentation) and recognize how quickly liquor can be lethal when you're a petite teenage girl.

When I was 19 this guy plied me with 151 proof, but as drunk as I was I managed to fight him off (eventually) like a wild banshee when he tried (very roughly) to have his way with me.

That was 23 years ago and I remember that night vividly, but had he slipped something or other in my drink the night may very well have turned out very different.

They were quite popular in the 70s, very easy to get, and could definitely knock you out, especially if combined with alcohol.

I know there were those "dolls"--barbiturates (whether codeine is one I can't remember) that were big in the 60s and 70s, and that ludes were floating around my middle school.

You're right. They were easy to get and at the right dosage could knock out a skinny female who hadn't developed any tolerance to it.

Codeine is an opiate.
Quaalude is quinazolinone.
Barbiturates are, well, barbiturates.
"Dolls" are apparently ill defined slang for amphetamines, depressants or MDMA.

None of them have anything to do with one another, although the vaguely defined "depressants" for "Dolls" could possibly be linked to the others.

given that Rohypnol in its current form wasn't available until the 90s, as I understand it.

Codeine is still prescribed today. Barbiturates are out of favor, but were the drugs in "Valley of the Dolls." That's what they were referring to with Dolls--maybe you use it for another class of drugs--but this was the Mother's Little Helper of the 60s. Quaalude apparently got discontinued because of bad press by the early 80s. Whether that was in the same class I never knew.

I'm not making an argument for any or all drugs nor that they are identical--I was simply speculating about the one(s) to which he would have had access and that would achieved this similar affect.

Since I just read that one claimant says he gave her a quaalude and that he had a "drawer full of them," I'm guessing that was the go-to drug for awhile.

The slang term "Dolls" refers more to dependance on a variety of stimulants, depressants and other drugs, rather than a specific drug.

Rohypnol was invented in the 70's, but not widely available until into the 80's

None of the drugs you have referred to by name is in the same class as any of the others.

I realize that you stated your uncertainties, my intent is not to confront, just to clear up the information that you have stated incorrectly.

have CIA connections. I believe and support those coming forward with the truth. These women were drugged and raped by Mr. Bill Cosby. What has been reported so far sounds like a serial rapist to me.

I'm in no position to judge things I didn't witness that happened or didn't 25 to 30 years ago. I wouldn't testify to the color of your house if I could find in on Google Maps Street View, because you could have painted it this morning.

What I have said in this thread, is facts about drugs that were mentioned.

I don't know why you would bring up LSD as the descriptions of being drugged mentioned in the OP are nothing like the reported effects of LSD.

from back in the 70s - he talks in it about Spanish Fly. It's a joke you see. Give Spanish Fly to Crazy Mary and well, you can guess where that ends up!

I do remember hearing about Spanish Fly decades ago. Precursor to "roofies" I guess. Through very cursory research, learned the following:

Rohypnol is a hypnotic that causes zombie like effects and memory loss.
Spanish Fly is ground up beetle and causes irritation of the urinary tract that stimulates sexual arrousal in some.

Also, if you google Spanish Fly it will take you to the Cosby comedy bit about using Spanish Fly.

Sick and sad.

for a short time in the 70s. Men would OFTEN whisper to me to make their dates' drinks a double. (I would not.)

point is: I hope he's not really the person he is seen to be by all these accusations. I will wait for the final result. Does not look good for a person I DID like. Sad.

Funny how so many people are full of strong opinions about various Republicans, but aren't nowhere near as concerned as about "the final result". Whatever the eff that is.

are full of strong opinions about republicans". What? They're not supposed to have strong opinions about republicans? Your response is noted. I am concerned that Cosby is involved in acts as despicable as he is accused of. If he is, which looks like it is, he will pay the price. If not, he won't. I won't lynch him right away as some on here have done already. I wasn't there and neither have any of the accusers in this forum. The truth will have it's day in this situation. You will NEVER cause me any concern with your comments that lack a basis in reality. And please bring up anyone else that deserves a fair trial.

to some here. I would think after three women made false accusations against Julian Assange in less then two months people might be slightly more circumspect.

In the measure it looks pretty bad, but there are some major x factors in play that people don't seem to wish to acknowledged.

that I am pro-rape, pro any type of forced and violent sexual encounter, it is their right. Yet understand, I know who I am and what I stand for. If Mr. Cosby did these actions he is accused of may he suffer the full consequence of the law. It does look very bad for him, so I'll still wait for the final result of this story.

.

Although I can't believe he'd be stupid enough to try something with one of his TV kids. He seemed to pick his victims very carefully.

I seem to remember the publicity at the time portrayed Bonet as a wild child, a 'good kid gone wrong' situation, and that's why she was asked to leave the show.

And I vaguely remember Cosby sort of scolding her because she did a semi-nude photo shoot after leaving the show. Sounds a bit hypocritical now, doesn't it?

Last edited Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:24 PM - Edit history (1)

She had an interesting tweet, yesterday.

but every time we learn about the truth and fall of one of these icons, be it a Bill Cosby for me, or a Pete Rose for baseball fans, and the list goes on and on, a little piece of our childhood dies.

I used to feel terribly for children learning of a Pete Rose, Lance Armstrong or other sports icon's duplicity. Turning them into cynics.

Well, I'm a grown up, but it still really hurts. The Cosby show was not only wonderful entertainment, but had strong social value in illustrating a professional, strong African American family at a time when it was really impactful.

Who didn't love the albums, the specials ("Fat Albert&quot , even going back as far as I Spy, the TV show. Bill Cosby was one of the first African American actors - if not the first - to break through.

This is not about anyone but him, as an individual. No one else takes the fall for this.

Such a shame.

In denial. Nobody's ever going to hire him again. I'm glad he was never a hero of mone. Too goofy, too bossy.

Bill Cosby was a comedy hero of mine, back when he was recording comedy albums. They were mostly about his childhood reminiscences, sweet, silly, quirky, and somehow -- despite the fact that his childhood took place in a social landscape totally different from mine -- familiar. Also hilarious.

The accusers are piling up, their accusations are following reasonable lines considering the crime, meanwhile Cosby and his handlers keep trying to manage rather than address the issue. If he is innocent, by now Cosby should have made a clear concise declaration that he is innocent of the charges, but can say no more on the specifics upon the advice of his lawyer. To date, when faced with questions from the media, Cosby has refused to give any answer, and in the case of an Associated Press interview, attempted to bully the interview and the producer into "scuttling" that portion of the interview.

I find it extremely unpalatable to suspect that one of my childhood heroes has feet of clay, or worse.

of obama's cleansing of his critics, suggesting cosby's getting set up (or maybe exposed for stuff guys just do) for criticizing obama previously.

the guy's a loon but on something like 400 stations, maybe some near you and maybe riding your favorite college and pro sports mascots, and he's equating obama with pol pot and hitler lately suggesting obama brought in those south and central american kids to be his killer soldiers (like pol pot), egging on the cops re ferguson protests of "street vermin", etc

Center. His backdrop was a HUGE picture of Obama's inaugural.

by some 'think' tank dedicated to finding-and-creating-ways-to-attack-obama even if they're false and then feed it to 1000 radio stations. pretty soon they'll have them meeting in a opium den in brooklyn and obama gave him the roofies.

wiener used it to advance the idea (or whim) that obama was beginning to silence his enemies and would soon be coming for all of us.

the guys insane, and blaring from hundreds of stations. if he's like limbaugh, close to 30% of those stations rely on their associations with college sports.

Obama supporter. The wingnuts tried to push the lie that Oprah was no longer a supporter either. We learned that was a lie too.

“According to the karma of past actions, one’s destiny unfolds, even though everyone wants to be so lucky… Nothing stays in the dark 4ever!”

Last edited Sun Nov 23, 2014, 01:50 AM - Edit history (1)