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jpak

(41,758 posts)
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:05 PM Dec 2014

Democrat wins Senate election after investigation reveals ‘phantom ballots’ for GOP opponent did not

Source: Bangor Daily News

AUGUSTA, Maine — After mystery swirled around a contested southern Maine Senate district election for weeks, Catherine Breen — who saw Election Day victory slip from her grasp after an initial recount — is headed to the Senate after all.

Breen, a Falmouth Democrat, was declared the victor on election night by a narrow margin over her Republican opponent, Cathleen Manchester of Gray. Manchester asked for a recount, which was conducted on Nov. 18, and the candidates saw their fortunes reversed, with Manchester squeaking out an even tighter win.

Last week, Manchester was provisionally seated in the Legislature’s upper chamber, and Republican lawmakers had already taken to referring to her as “senator.”

Democrats raised questions about 21 ballots from Long Island seemingly discovered during the recount, all of which contained votes for Manchester. Those ballots could not be accounted for at any step of the chain of custody for cast ballots, and state and local election officials disagreed about the total number of votes that should have been tallied from Long Island.

<more>

Read more: http://bangordailynews.com/2014/12/09/politics/gop-sen-manchester-resigns-after-investigation-shows-democrat-breen-got-more-votes/



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Democrat wins Senate election after investigation reveals ‘phantom ballots’ for GOP opponent did not (Original Post) jpak Dec 2014 OP
So, some good news sakabatou Dec 2014 #1
It's important to note that this was a STATE Senate election. George II Dec 2014 #2
There is the voter fraud the Republicans have been warning you about. nt okaawhatever Dec 2014 #3
election fraud? mikeysnot Dec 2014 #11
+1 Veilex Dec 2014 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author groundloop Dec 2014 #21
But, but, Derek V Dec 2014 #4
Republicans Always Cheat billhicks76 Dec 2014 #22
Sloppy recount procedure, not attempted campaign fraud csziggy Dec 2014 #5
Suuuuure. Would you like to buy a bridge? jeff47 Dec 2014 #7
Quite a coincidence isn't it? drm604 Dec 2014 #10
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." csziggy Dec 2014 #24
Go ahead and explain the scenario where only the Republican ballots move to the next box. jeff47 Dec 2014 #25
It depends on how they counted the ballots csziggy Dec 2014 #26
They were doing it as you describe. jeff47 Dec 2014 #27
Never forget the malicious stupidity of Republicans. Eom displacedtexan Dec 2014 #29
Not buying it Android3.14 Dec 2014 #8
???? heaven05 Dec 2014 #9
of course it's not attempted fraud the gop would never do that belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #12
Then monkeys flew out of their asses Feral Child Dec 2014 #19
It was an attempt by Republicans at election fraud. They are doing this stuff nation wide. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #28
INDICTMENT turbinetree Dec 2014 #6
We don't know if this was deliberate or not. SpankMe Dec 2014 #13
Why is it every time this favors the Republican,... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2014 #14
Don't they film these things? Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #16
That's an intriguing idea... Beartracks Dec 2014 #23
Kick & recommend. William769 Dec 2014 #17
“Someone owes my town an apology. We have a boat to catch” said Annie Donovan. bluedigger Dec 2014 #18
Yeah. Mistake my ass. valerief Dec 2014 #20
Never, ever trust a republican. nt Zorra Dec 2014 #30

Response to okaawhatever (Reply #3)

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
22. Republicans Always Cheat
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 05:11 PM
Dec 2014

And cry wolf at us. They only worry about getting caught. They should be not only dealt with harshly but someone needs to really mess them up for this.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
5. Sloppy recount procedure, not attempted campaign fraud
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:17 PM
Dec 2014

From the link in the OP:

After several hours of questioning, they watched as Flynn and Patrick Gagnon, a detective from the attorney general’s office, opened Long Island’s sealed ballot container and began recounting the votes.

The first batch opened was designated as “Lot A2” — the batch at the center of the inquiry. The tally by Long Island election officials indicated there should have been 21 ballots there — nine for Breen, eight for Manchester and four blanks. But as was the case during the recount, 21 additional ballots for Manchester were included, for a total of 42 ballots.

The next batch, designated “Lot A1,” should have had 50 ballots, according to the tally sheet — 28 for Breen, 21 for Manchester, and one blank. However, when it was opened, Manchester’s votes were missing.

Flynn immediately offered an explanation: Manchester’s ballots from Lot A1 had been counted twice. She said it’s likely the ballots were erroneously put into the next lot before the first was properly put away, and then “rediscovered” as new ballots.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
7. Suuuuure. Would you like to buy a bridge?
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:27 PM
Dec 2014

A tad odd that only the Republican votes managed to be put in the next box to be counted.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
24. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 07:45 PM
Dec 2014

That version is attributed to Robert Hanlon. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_J._Hanlon

In his story Logic of Empire (1941) {Robert} Heinlein declares: "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity". He calls this the "devil theory" of sociology.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
25. Go ahead and explain the scenario where only the Republican ballots move to the next box.
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 07:49 PM
Dec 2014

And keep in mind these aren't party-line ballots and there's multiple races on the ballot.

So how exactly did that happen with just stupidity?

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
26. It depends on how they counted the ballots
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:20 PM
Dec 2014

They were only recounting this one race when the wandering ballots were counted in the wrong polling lot.

AUGUSTA, Maine — A recount of ballots for Senate District 25 in the Falmouth area has given Republicans a potentially unexpected seat in the Senate and a 21-seat majority they haven’t enjoyed since 1977.

The recounted tally is so close that the outcome of the election will be examined by a committee appointed by presumptive Senate President Mike Thibodeau, R-Winterport, and ultimately voted on by the full Senate, according to Secretary of State Matt Dunlap.

According to Dunlap and the Maine Republican Party, Republican newcomer Cathy Manchester of Gray has won the seat over Democrat Catherine Breen by a vote of 10,927 to 10,916 — an 11-vote margin. Unofficial results following the Nov. 4 election had Breen ahead by 32 votes, 10,930 to 10,898.

Dunlap said that because nine ballots are in dispute and Breen hasn’t accepted the results, the matter will be sent to the Senate, where an elections committee will be appointed by Thibodeau.
http://bangordailynews.com/2014/11/18/politics/state-house/ballot-recount-in-falmouth-area-election-overturns-result-could-expand-gops-senate-majority/?ref=relatedBox


If they stacked the Republican ballots and Democratic ballots from each polling place in piles, and someone wasn't paying attention to the division between piles, the Republican pile from one district could have gotten placed with the other one.

Of course, that relies on whether the person putting the piles into the groups for each polling place are capable of counting past two. In none of the articles about the election there was any mention of third party candidates, so that would mean there should have only been two piles of ballots for each polling place.

I don't put it past the stupidity of Republicans to screw up what should have been a simple, straightforward recount. First off, why have more than one polling place ballots out at the same time? Open the sealed box, count the ballots, record the results, put the ballots away, reseal the box. One polling location at a time, no two boxes unsealed at the same time.

What's interesting is even without the 21 "phantom votes" the Republican candidate gained 8 votes while the Democratic candidate lost 14.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
27. They were doing it as you describe.
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 09:47 PM
Dec 2014
I don't put it past the stupidity of Republicans to screw up what should have been a simple, straightforward recount. First off, why have more than one polling place ballots out at the same time? Open the sealed box, count the ballots, record the results, put the ballots away, reseal the box. One polling location at a time, no two boxes unsealed at the same time.

That's what they claimed to be doing.

What's interesting is even without the 21 "phantom votes" the Republican candidate gained 8 votes while the Democratic candidate lost 14.

The recount turned up uncounted ballots in other districts. But that was votes either miscounted or not counted, they didn't end up with more ballots than voters as in the 21.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
28. It was an attempt by Republicans at election fraud. They are doing this stuff nation wide.
Thu Dec 11, 2014, 08:03 AM
Dec 2014

It became commonplace during the 2,000 presidential election in Florida. That is how Nazi filth took over the nation.

turbinetree

(24,703 posts)
6. INDICTMENT
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:27 PM
Dec 2014

There had better be some indictments or an through investigation to get to the bottom of this.
I know there little right wing tea bag governor will not do anything, but the citizens of this state should put pressure on those that knew, because it could be them next time.
This stuff should not be tolerated, this is a democracy not a third world dictatorship

SpankMe

(2,957 posts)
13. We don't know if this was deliberate or not.
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:14 PM
Dec 2014

Either way, it takes away from the Republican excuses for all of the voter suppression laws out there.

If it was deliberate (a 'harmless' dry run for future fraud), then it shows that their own people (probably) are the real election fraudsters.

If it was an accident, then it shows that snafus like this will affect vote tallies much more than any deliberate voter fraud. Why worry about one or two voters with fake ID's when you can much more easily have miscounted votes in the dozens?

Fuck Republicans and their effort to subvert democracy.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
14. Why is it every time this favors the Republican,...
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:15 PM
Dec 2014

....and every time it seems the Dems response is to try to pretend it's not happening?

Beartracks

(12,816 posts)
23. That's an intriguing idea...
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 05:34 PM
Dec 2014

That's an intriguing idea. They could have overhead cameras the way dealers do in a casino.

________________________________

valerief

(53,235 posts)
20. Yeah. Mistake my ass.
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 04:40 PM
Dec 2014
Flynn immediately offered an explanation: Manchester’s ballots from Lot A1 had been counted twice. She said it’s likely the ballots were erroneously put into the next lot before the first was properly put away, and then “rediscovered” as new ballots.
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