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ellenrr

(3,864 posts)
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:44 AM Jan 2015

Roma baby refused burial in France

Source: BBC

A Roma baby girl has been denied a burial space by a French mayor, sparking outrage among activists.

The girl, who died on Christmas Day, reportedly of sudden infant death syndrome, was refused burial in Champlan, south of Paris.

The mayor said priority had to be given to taxpayers.

The mayor of nearby Wissous, Richard Trinquier, described that decision as "incomprehensible" and said that he would offer a grave.

The girl's family lived in a camp in Champlan.

The mayor of Champlan, Christian Leclerc, was quoted by Le Parisien newspaper as justifying the decision by saying that his town was running out of burial space and that "priority is given to those who pay local taxes".



Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30670371

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Roma baby refused burial in France (Original Post) ellenrr Jan 2015 OP
Another thread said a nearby town allowed it. LeftyMom Jan 2015 #1
I'm curious about the mayor having a veto on burials in the first place. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2015 #11
Presumably, the title is less than clear FBaggins Jan 2015 #21
Pauper burials in the town budget Android3.14 Jan 2015 #22
Oh good. Thanks for the info (nt) question everything Jan 2015 #20
In case I ever visit France, remind me to not drop any tourist dollars in Champlan Hekate Jan 2015 #2
Absolutely disgusting LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #3
"There is more than a whiff of Vichy in the air, with Muslims and Roma taking the place of Jews." pampango Jan 2015 #4
yes. fascism doesn't go away it just changes its targets. thanks for ellenrr Jan 2015 #5
Misleading Headline 1step Jan 2015 #6
The headline is the BBC's and it is absolutely correct and descriptive of what happened. Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #8
Are you claiming that the mayor of Champlan changed his mind? Thor_MN Jan 2015 #9
The OP followed the rules for this forum. LiberalFighter Jan 2015 #19
Mayor LeClerc certainly has an ironic first name. marble falls Jan 2015 #7
The baby won't care Snow Leopard Jan 2015 #10
The family might Feral Child Jan 2015 #15
You beat me by seconds! Quackers Jan 2015 #17
Hi, Quackers! Feral Child Jan 2015 #18
Heartless much? Quackers Jan 2015 #16
I feel bad for the family but.. Snow Leopard Jan 2015 #23
Has anyone checked - are we sure the mayor's name isn't really LePen? (NT) Heywood J Jan 2015 #12
Taking up real estate generally isn't free, is it? Quantess Jan 2015 #13
Every jurisdiction has some governmental way of disposing of the dead. Igel Jan 2015 #14

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
1. Another thread said a nearby town allowed it.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:50 AM
Jan 2015

I'd like that mayor to explain why they bury any babies at all if only taxpayers are allowed. I've never met a baby with a job.

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
21. Presumably, the title is less than clear
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 01:22 AM
Jan 2015

I'd bet that the baby was not denied a burial. She was probably denied a burial at state expense.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
22. Pauper burials in the town budget
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 07:00 AM
Jan 2015

Most towns have a budget item for burying homeless people or those too poor to pay for a burial. This "not enough room" blather was simple unjustified racism.

Hekate

(90,714 posts)
2. In case I ever visit France, remind me to not drop any tourist dollars in Champlan
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:51 AM
Jan 2015

Doesn't get much more heartless than refusing burial to an infant.

LeftishBrit

(41,208 posts)
3. Absolutely disgusting
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 04:56 AM
Jan 2015

I am glad that the nearby Mayor was prepared to help.

How can someone be so utterly mean as to deny a child a grave?

pampango

(24,692 posts)
4. "There is more than a whiff of Vichy in the air, with Muslims and Roma taking the place of Jews."
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 08:24 AM
Jan 2015
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/02/le-journal-and-le-club/

The mayor, Richard Trinquier, is a member of the UMP (French version of republican) and is well known for his anti-Muslim views. His attitudes fit well with the French GOP but he might be an even better fit for the National Front which is even further to the right.

Richard Trinquier elected UMP Essonne, do not like Muslims. His latest feat of arms: the prohibition of a leisure center with two veiled women in early July. A move that would earn him on Wednesday a criminal complaint for discrimination and incitement to racial hatred.

http://www.jeuneafrique.com/Article/ARTJAWEB20140730120657/

ellenrr

(3,864 posts)
5. yes. fascism doesn't go away it just changes its targets. thanks for
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 08:36 AM
Jan 2015

the link, I am going there. love counterpunch.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
8. The headline is the BBC's and it is absolutely correct and descriptive of what happened.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:22 AM
Jan 2015

What happened after that is the rest of the story, a story about an infant being refused burial in France.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
9. Are you claiming that the mayor of Champlan changed his mind?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:30 AM
Jan 2015

The baby was refused a burial plot in Champlain. That is still true, nothing misleading at all about the headline. One could argue that the headline could imply all of France, but that dos not change the fact that Champlan refused.

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
15. The family might
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 03:01 PM
Jan 2015

You think?

I'm an outspoken atheist and I certainly don't believe in a human"soul", but show some humanity.

Unlike this racist mayor.

Not a good start, Snow Leopard. You might want to delete that post, or at least edit in something more appropriate.

Welcome to DU.

 

Snow Leopard

(348 posts)
23. I feel bad for the family but..
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:45 PM
Jan 2015

not outrage at the Mayor's call. Coupled with a nearby solution being found, it is a bit overblown in my humble opinion.

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
13. Taking up real estate generally isn't free, is it?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jan 2015

I was under the impression that there is always a fee. What's wrong with cremation? I'm not feeling the outrage.

Igel

(35,320 posts)
14. Every jurisdiction has some governmental way of disposing of the dead.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:40 PM
Jan 2015

The indigent, the transient, the unclaimed and unidentifiable. Prisoners sometimes fall into that category, esp. if from out of state. We used to call them "pauper's graves."

This would be in graveyards in some towns or counties, or the jurisdiction pays for funeral services from a private vendor. This is really the "US" version, where we have municipal (at least sometimes), private, and church-based graveyards.

And it's true, in a lot of places graveyards are filling up. Then you have to worry about getting more land, double burials, or removing the dead and finding another, more compact place for them. The good thing about wood coffins and no formaldehyde is that in some areas after 50 or 100 years the bodies are completely decomposed, or little remains of the skeleton so that they can be repackaged into much smaller volumes. (Personally, I think burials should involve having the deceased "stood to rest"--takes up much less land area per capita, so to speak.)

In some countries they lack the private graveyards. Then it's church or municipal.

This tyke isn't the first person to be refused for burial on various grounds, most often religious. But transients and such are sometimes refused burial, and the reasons given are those from the mayor in the OP. Typically the race/ethnicity of the town, the transient, and the denying official are the same or very similar and it's not an issue.

This being DU, the only time such "horrors" are noticed is when it touches a nerve. When a Muslim is refused burial in a Xian-denominated graveyard (or, in tit-for-tat response, when a Xian is refused burial in a Muslim graveyard), for instance, and "Muslimophobia" is railed against (not such a big deal if it's a Catholic being denied burial in a Lutheran cemetary, "catholophobia" being a virtue for many). Or when a transient, indigent child is refused burial and some domestic political outrage can be cited as the real, underlying problem.

This nails both. Roma aren't Xian, so the churches would bail. And the graveyards of last resort, the municipal ones, often have a preference for the local population that needs to be serviced. (The ultimate problem being, of course, that graveyards are filling up and that small villages typically aren't flush with cash.) So it's easy to ignore what's always there and focus on the racism that must be the real reason: Discrimination against the Roma, who are always innocent victims. It helps when the Rom in question is an infant.


On edit: I'm never sure how to speak about the Roma.

So many advocates use "Roma," but that's really just the endonym some groups with very outspoken and organized advocates, some of which are from those communities and others of which are complete outsiders (some even want "Rroma&quot . Others like the UN want "Romani" or "Romany". In France the groups--like "Native American," a larger group identity for the "Roma" has been forged mostly by exposure to the oustide and isn't universally shared by all its members--are Kale and Manouche (or Sinti), with a lot of other subgroups having moved in recently because of open travel policies (with attempts to revert them to their countries of origin fought vehemently--if unemployed and Bulgarian it's okay, but not if you're oppressed).

In other words, I use "Roma" because the use of an exonym is inherently disrespectful. I must think of "Roma" as an endonym because for some it is, even though for this family it's probably an exonym. I get it: Exonyms bad, except when somebody more moral and virtuous than I am authorizes the use of an exonym and says, "Exonyms good."

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