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Turborama

(22,109 posts)
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:28 PM Jan 2015

(British) Nursery staff to be forced to report toddlers at risk of becoming terrorists

Source: The Independent (UK)

Nursery staff will be forced to report toddlers at risk of becoming terrorists under plans drawn up by the Home Office.

It is part of the department’s consultation over ways to enhance its anti-terrorism strategy, Prevent.

Critics have dismissed the proposals as being unnecessarily draconian and turning staff, who are meant to be caring for youngsters, into spies.



Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nursery-staff-to-be-forced-to-report-toddlers-at-risk-of-becoming-terrorists-9956414.html



Brings a whole new meaning to the term minority report.
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(British) Nursery staff to be forced to report toddlers at risk of becoming terrorists (Original Post) Turborama Jan 2015 OP
Nanny State Bosonic Jan 2015 #1
+1 blkmusclmachine Jan 2015 #15
More like Cruel Stepmother State. nt eppur_se_muova Jan 2015 #17
start with Tony Blair's grandchildren. roguevalley Jan 2015 #22
+1 good answer lunasun Jan 2015 #39
western fear factories turn it up to 11 KG Jan 2015 #2
The implants are coming... I assure you that is being discussed at CIA/NSA/FBI - they want to tag us whereisjustice Jan 2015 #3
Geeez,,,, Cryptoad Jan 2015 #10
lol, that's probably why I can't walk through Target without setting off their scanners whereisjustice Jan 2015 #11
Yep..... but the new implants Cryptoad Jan 2015 #13
They are storing DNA & blood samples jakeXT Jan 2015 #16
America is a nation of records, we save everything! Probably spend billions a year on storage. Sunlei Jan 2015 #21
little do you know that places like NYC already have facilities that read every face & car plate. Sunlei Jan 2015 #26
Cell phones are just as effective Android3.14 Jan 2015 #49
The Brits pull this, and they will have to worry about the mothers Demeter Jan 2015 #4
I used to think that "future predictions" was unrealistic dixiegrrrrl Jan 2015 #29
Careful, Britain. Heywood J Jan 2015 #5
ROFL SoapBox Jan 2015 #6
That's the exact image that popped into my head alcina Jan 2015 #35
If the OP is real rather than satire, I'd have to say the Britain is even dumber than the U.S. \ ladjf Jan 2015 #7
Hardly seems possible! What a shame. n/t Judi Lynn Jan 2015 #32
And these low paid care givers are qualified in just what way notadmblnd Jan 2015 #8
They aren't as lowpaid over there as they are in the USA. Sunlei Jan 2015 #19
Not any longer, I'm afraid. dixiegrrrrl Jan 2015 #25
well when my friends mom got cancer, their first concern wasn't if insurance would pay. Sunlei Jan 2015 #27
Here is one article discussing care giver pay. Does not look like they're paid better notadmblnd Jan 2015 #28
our foreign visa workers have to be paid federal minimum too, otherwise the owner would pay them not Sunlei Jan 2015 #30
No, it's a pretty low paid job in UK just as it is here notadmblnd Jan 2015 #31
If this had been in force in the US when I was a kid, I'd have definitely been labeled a terrorist. Rozlee Jan 2015 #9
I bet those Nuns gave you a lot of 'personal attention' Sunlei Jan 2015 #20
I got to know that confessional booth very well. Rozlee Jan 2015 #38
To be fair, aren't all Nursery staff spies? It is part of their job to report to parents... Moonwalk Jan 2015 #12
I know what you are saying,,,, Cryptoad Jan 2015 #14
I think daycare is free over there? But they do have to report to authorities any 'child abuse' or Sunlei Jan 2015 #18
No, daycare is not free in the UK Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #23
I don't know, all I know is the USA lags behind other first world countries in about everything.... Sunlei Jan 2015 #24
Yes and no: Some day care *is* free in the UK but full time day care usually isn't. Nihil Jan 2015 #50
All I can see is report bigoted stuff a toddler says, wtf? uppityperson Jan 2015 #33
It says much more than that... Turborama Jan 2015 #43
it seems rather bizarre to me. uppityperson Jan 2015 #44
It is very bizarre. The Tories are going to lose a lot of parents' votes in May's general election Turborama Jan 2015 #45
All toddlers are terrorists treestar Jan 2015 #34
+ a brazilion undeterred Jan 2015 #42
Just the other day my christx30 Jan 2015 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Jan 2015 #37
What the... davidthegnome Jan 2015 #40
It is all rather Orwellian... Turborama Jan 2015 #41
Precrime? The Onion? area51 Jan 2015 #46
Here's the consultation document: muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #47
Thanks for that link. Nihil Jan 2015 #51
The children will emulate their leaders and parents, which is scary as hell. nilesobek Jan 2015 #48
Besides draconian Feral Child Jan 2015 #52
The Nanny State Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #53
Can their technique be modified to include republicanism? kentauros Jan 2015 #54
I worry about what we are becoming. oldandhappy Jan 2015 #55

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
3. The implants are coming... I assure you that is being discussed at CIA/NSA/FBI - they want to tag us
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:36 PM
Jan 2015

and track us like animals.

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
16. They are storing DNA & blood samples
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 03:54 PM
Jan 2015

Indiana storing blood & DNA of 2 million children without parents' consent

...


13 Investigates has discovered the Indiana State Department of Health is holding the blood samples of more than 2.25 million Hoosier children – without their parents' permission. If your children were born in Indiana since 1991, chances are their blood and DNA is among the state's massive collection.

Following WTHR's investigation, state health officials are now seeking input on what to do with the blood samples after admitting they don't have the consent needed to use them for anything.

How Indiana got your kids' DNA

Indiana, like most other states, conducts a newborn screening test on every baby born within its borders. As required by state law, a nurse or midwife takes a few drops of blood from the heel of each newborn. (There is a limited exemption for families citing religious objections.)

...

But there's another part of the program most parents were never told about. For decades, ISDH has been keeping the leftover blood samples for possible use in medical research. And the health department admits it never asked parents' permission to do that.

"No, we did nothing to notify parents," said Bowman. "That's why we are struggling right now to try to figure out what is the best and most appropriate thing to do."

Warehouse full of blood

State health officials say its collection of dried blood and DNA is currently stored in 666 bankers boxes in a large warehouse in Indianapolis. ISDH agreed to provide 13 Investigates with a photo that shows rows of boxes stacked on shelves inside the warehouse, but it would not allow WTHR to visit the warehouse or say where the warehouse is located.

http://www.wthr.com/story/25954821/2014/07/07/your-childs-dna-who-has-it

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
26. little do you know that places like NYC already have facilities that read every face & car plate.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:44 PM
Jan 2015

and cameras too, to send out some of their 47, 000? police.

I'm going to mail my cell phone on a trip around the world & expect a knock at the door from our trillion dollar 'Homeland security'

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
49. Cell phones are just as effective
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 07:03 AM
Jan 2015

And we pay for them, not the government.
The whole "implants" thing is such tinfoil bullshit.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
4. The Brits pull this, and they will have to worry about the mothers
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:40 PM
Jan 2015

This is what is known as "jumping the shark".

I used to think Britain was a civilized place...my eyes are seeing more clearly, now.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
29. I used to think that "future predictions" was unrealistic
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:54 PM
Jan 2015

but then...
When I moved to Cal. in 2000 I was informed that Mental Health professionals, who were mandatory reporters, were supposed to officially report any circumstances which MIGHT, in the future, harm someone.
Cal. law.

Not the normal mandatory reporting of believable threats to harm one's self or anther person, but any info. obtained in an interview that someone or their family member might possibly come to harm at some future date.
Example: Mom stays home with the kids but she drinks.
Have to report it because of the possibility of something happening from the situation.
Don't need to know how mcuh she drinks, when, where, etc.
Just "possible scenarios".

How the hell such reports were supposed to be acted upon by the already overburdened Soc. Ser. Depts, I have no idea.


You can imagine how little the clients wanted to say at intake, after they were advised of the law.


notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
8. And these low paid care givers are qualified in just what way
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jan 2015

that makes them capable of predicting who could or could not grow up to be a terrorist?

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
19. They aren't as lowpaid over there as they are in the USA.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 05:48 PM
Jan 2015

Their healthcare system, and 'care givers' are far superior to Americas.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
25. Not any longer, I'm afraid.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:43 PM
Jan 2015

The healthcare system has been systemically gutted with plans to turn it into private for profit system.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
28. Here is one article discussing care giver pay. Does not look like they're paid better
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:53 PM
Jan 2015

According to the new policy, before settlement visas can be issued to foreign caregivers, they must be receiving an hourly wage of at least £7.02. Only those receiving this amount would be eligible to apply for an Indefinite Leave to Remain visas, the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs said

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2011-11-09/uk/new%20uk-law-affects-filipino-caregivers-applying-for-permanent-residence.htm

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
30. our foreign visa workers have to be paid federal minimum too, otherwise the owner would pay them not
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:07 PM
Jan 2015

nothing.

Of course that doesn't include the sometimes thousands they pay the company who brings in the foreign workers.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
31. No, it's a pretty low paid job in UK just as it is here
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:18 PM
Jan 2015

Last edited Sun Jan 4, 2015, 08:33 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.adzuna.co.uk/jobs/caregiver

So again, I ask the question how are they qualified to assess whether or not someone is going to be terrorist when they grow up?

Caring for children is even lower pay in UK

http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Child_Care_%2F_Day_Care_Worker/Hourly_Rate

Rozlee

(2,529 posts)
9. If this had been in force in the US when I was a kid, I'd have definitely been labeled a terrorist.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jan 2015

I fit Louie Gohmert's terrorist babies profile to a tee. I was an anchor baby and at a very young age, I started back talking the nuns in catechism and once, I came into class after they'd said the Pledge of Allegiance. See? Death to America! Death to the Christians!

Using that template, you can make any kind of argument that any child will grow to be any kind of threat. I used to play with matches. I joined the US Army. I talked to my neighbor's dog. I'm the Son of Sam.

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
12. To be fair, aren't all Nursery staff spies? It is part of their job to report to parents...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:54 PM
Jan 2015

...on how kids behave. Just sayin'

What I can't figure out is how one can tell if a toddler is likely to become a terrorist. What are the signs?

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
18. I think daycare is free over there? But they do have to report to authorities any 'child abuse' or
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 05:45 PM
Jan 2015

a child who may be in need of medical attention.

Unlike the USA where childcare is only as good as the 'management'.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
24. I don't know, all I know is the USA lags behind other first world countries in about everything....
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:39 PM
Jan 2015

important to the general publics life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

But we do seem to grow more 'home grown' terrorists

 

Nihil

(13,508 posts)
50. Yes and no: Some day care *is* free in the UK but full time day care usually isn't.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 11:55 AM
Jan 2015

The state will pay for up to 15 hours per week for the "school year" of 38 weeks
for ALL children between 3 & 4 years old.

There are additional grants that apply according to income, migration/asylum status,
working parent, benefit recipient and a bunch of other things.

The net result is that of the ten three-hour "sessions" per week, at least half are paid for
by the state - more depending on circumstances - which, although not perfect, isn't that
bad either.

(See //www.gov.uk/free-early-education for a starting point if you're interested.)

Turborama

(22,109 posts)
43. It says much more than that...
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:13 AM
Jan 2015
The document accompanies the Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill, currently before parliament. It identifies nurseries and early years childcare providers, along with schools and universities, as having a duty “to prevent people being drawn into terrorism”.

The consultation paper adds: “Senior management and governors should make sure that staff have training that gives them the knowledge and confidence to identify children at risk of being drawn into terrorism and challenge extremist ideas which can be used to legitimise terrorism and are shared by terrorist groups.

“They should know where and how to refer children and young people for further help.”

But concern was raised over the practicalities of making it a legal requirement for staff to inform on toddlers.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11323558/Anti-terror-plan-to-spy-on-toddlers-is-heavy-handed.html


uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
44. it seems rather bizarre to me.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:19 AM
Jan 2015

Terrorist toddlers? How about those who have had family killed for no good reason ?

Turborama

(22,109 posts)
45. It is very bizarre. The Tories are going to lose a lot of parents' votes in May's general election
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 03:54 AM
Jan 2015

...if they go ahead with this.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
36. Just the other day my
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 09:01 PM
Jan 2015

6 year old yelled out "Superman" or "Death to the infidel!!" I couldn't really make it out. She was eating a pop tart at the time.

Response to Turborama (Original post)

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
40. What the...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:50 PM
Jan 2015

This must be one of their new priorities, I guess, right along with banning born which shows female ejaculation or face sitting.

How the hell do you spot a terrorist in a toddler? Are they supposed to try to pre-empt this shit now? OMG, that kid is picking it's nose in a suspicious manner... hey, that one made a suspicious hand-gesture just before it dirtied it's diaper.

What a load of crap. Who the hell thinks this stuff up? Seriously... must be awesome to have all their priorities in the right place. Which is not to say that we're any better. I mean, we jailed Martha Stewart, that rotten criminal... but we couldn't do a damn thing about war crimes.

Maybe next they'll try to ban eating, sleeping, or shitting in a suspicious manner.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
47. Here's the consultation document:
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 05:41 AM
Jan 2015
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/388934/45584_Prevent_duty_guidance-a_consultation_Web_Accessible.pdf

What it does say, in the schools section, is things like "Institutions will need to demonstrate that they are protecting children and young people from being drawn into terrorism by having robust safeguarding policies in place to identify children at risk, and intervening as appropriate (by referring pupils to Channel or Children’s Social Care, for example)."

So this is basically saying that you may need to refer children to the social services if you think they're at risk of being turned into terrorists. Just as you'd refer them if you think they're at risk of abuse. It's not about reporting them to the police.
 

Nihil

(13,508 posts)
51. Thanks for that link.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:00 PM
Jan 2015

The concept "you may need to refer children to the social services if you think they're at risk" has been
around for decades.

Like most regulations & guidelines, the more detailed & specific the wording, the more torturous the
interpretation as both parties twist the blindingly obvious into hypotheticals & hyperbole.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
48. The children will emulate their leaders and parents, which is scary as hell.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 06:43 AM
Jan 2015

In first grade I made an enemies list that I carelessly left on the playground. A girl found it and turned me in. I was in so much trouble. The list had the principal's name, my teachers, the school police officer, the lunch lady and a few others on it.

I took four separate beatings for this, the worst from my father who was really embarrassed. A few days later I appeared at a school meeting between the staff and my parents. They were asking me questions about why I made an enemies list so I told them the truth: "Nixon made an enemies list, why can't I?"

The meeting ended shortly after that with no more mention of it ever again. This is a horrible law and I think it will increase terrorism. Kids are already into the "Jihadi Cool," thing over there now.

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
52. Besides draconian
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:04 PM
Jan 2015

Absolutely futile.

How are they suppose to guess this, at the toddler stage? They can't, other than presupposing that all Muslim children, and I suppose Irish children, are at risk of becoming terrorists.

Simply racial profiling at the infant stage. Best they'll accomplish is alienating those children, thus preconditioning them with feelings of isolation likely to nurture terroristic resentment.


Proof that racism isn't purely an American problem; anywhere the white race exists it reacts with racism to different folk.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
54. Can their technique be modified to include republicanism?
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:14 PM
Jan 2015

Because that's probably the worst kind of terrorism there is...

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
55. I worry about what we are becoming.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:35 PM
Jan 2015

Reporting toddlers as future terrorists, no hoodies in Oklahoma -- really??

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