Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

alp227

(32,025 posts)
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:23 AM Apr 2012

NATO Sees Flaws in Air Campaign Against Qaddafi

Source: NY Times

Despite widespread praise in Western capitals for NATO’s leadership of the air campaign in Libya, a confidential NATO assessment paints a sobering portrait of the alliance’s ability to carry out such campaigns without significant support from the United States.

The report concluded that the allies struggled to share crucial target information, lacked specialized planners and analysts, and overly relied on the United States for reconnaissance and refueling aircraft.

The findings undercut the idea that the intervention was a model operation and that NATO could effectively carry out a more complicated campaign in Syria without relying disproportionately on the United States military. Even with the American help in Libya, NATO had only about 40 percent of the aircraft needed to intercept electronic communications, a shortage that hindered the operation’s effectiveness, the report said.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/world/africa/nato-sees-flaws-in-air-campaign-against-qaddafi.html?pagewanted=all

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
NATO Sees Flaws in Air Campaign Against Qaddafi (Original Post) alp227 Apr 2012 OP
it wants to steal another trillion from the working people of europe and the world nt msongs Apr 2012 #1
Your Twitter-length paranoia always adds something special to a thread. nt TheWraith Apr 2012 #2
Under the circumstances in Europe, doubtful psychopomp Apr 2012 #3
Spam deleted by Morning Dew (MIR Team) comelygirls Apr 2012 #4
Bob Gates said as much last year tabatha Apr 2012 #5
He was right. Lasher Apr 2012 #6
Mathaba? UnseenUndergrad Apr 2012 #7
OK, read the same story in the LA Times if it makes you feel better. Lasher Apr 2012 #8
Much better. UnseenUndergrad Apr 2012 #9
NATO = US Military. bvar22 Apr 2012 #10
Exactly. NATO = US Military. Arctic Dave Apr 2012 #11
Some of your posts are out of date. tabatha Apr 2012 #12
My posts are out of date... bvar22 Apr 2012 #13

psychopomp

(4,668 posts)
3. Under the circumstances in Europe, doubtful
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:09 AM
Apr 2012

This article is highlighting a simple truth, that Europe is not ready to go it alone without the USA. When it comes to making war on a large scale, nobody does it better than the yanks.

tabatha

(18,795 posts)
5. Bob Gates said as much last year
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:43 AM
Apr 2012

Gates warns of 'dismal future' for NATO without urgent changes
AFGHANISTAN

June 10, 2011|By Tim Lister, CNN

Robert Gates criticized NATO readiness and resources but praised governments that had helped in Afghanistan.
Outgoing U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates says NATO has become a "two-tiered" alliance poorly equipped to deal with challenges, and with members either unable or unwilling to carry out agreed missions in Afghanistan and Libya.

In his farewell speech Friday to the NATO Council in Brussels, Gates pulled few punches in listing the shortcomings of the alliance.

In particular, he drew a contrast between those members "willing and able to pay the price and bear the burdens of alliance commitments, and those who enjoy the benefits of NATO membership ... but don't want to share the risks and the costs."

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-10/politics/gates.nato_1_nato-membership-nato-council-gates?_s=PM OLITICS

Lasher

(27,597 posts)
6. He was right.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:29 AM
Apr 2012
NATO members face budget cuts, scrounge to keep their (Libya) bombing campaign alive

08/20/2011

NATO runs out of money for war against Libya

The French and Italians have sent their aircraft carriers home. The British have withdrawn their spy plane. Canada is pulling out air crews. The Danes are running out of bombs. And the Norwegians have dropped out entirely.

<snip>

NATO officials have requested more help from several member countries now playing little or no role, a group that includes Spain, Germany and Poland.

<snip>

The Pentagon has chiefly provided surveillance, intelligence-gathering, air refueling and other logistical support rather than conducting manned combat missions since the air war began in March.

But the Pentagon has added Predator drones, refueling planes and attack aircraft designed to suppress fire from antiaircraft batteries and other air defenses.

The U.S. also has helped replenish other countries' inventories of "smart" bombs and other munitions, say NATO officials.

http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=628134

UnseenUndergrad

(249 posts)
9. Much better.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 02:29 PM
Apr 2012

I was just spooked by the use of a news agency which was used extensively as Pro-regime propaganda during the war.

You probably should have posted this link in the first place.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
10. NATO = US Military.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:15 PM
Apr 2012

NATO does NOTHING without the approval and support of the US.
Period.

The US simply used NATO as a blind to camouflage its program of Regime Change in Libya
by piggy backing on the legitimate uprisings of the Arab Spring.
NATO was nothing beyond the illusion of Credible Deniability for the PR wing of the US Government.

BTW: Does anybody know what is currently happening in Libya?
These links are


Al Qaeda flags and "rebels" openly celebrating in Benghazi


Al Qaeda flags flying over government offices in Benghazi



US Military Transports "on the ground" in Libya


The ethnic cleansing continues unabated in Western Libya,
and Sharia Law is being imposed in the provinces.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8844819/Libyas-liberation-interim-ruler-unveils-more-radical-than-expected-plans-for-Islamic-law.html





...but, the Oil is flowing to the Western Corporations,
the IMF has had their last roadblock to the Looting of Northern Africa removed,

” For all his dictatorial megalomania, Gaddafi is a committed pan-African - a fierce defender of African unity. Libya was not in debt to international bankers. It did not borrow cash from the International Monetary Fund for any "structural adjustment". It used oil money for social services - including the Great Man Made River project, and investment/aid to sub-Saharan countries. Its independent central bank was not manipulated by the Western financial system. All in all a very bad example for the developing world.”

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD27Ak01.html




and the Western Banks seem to have "lost" the Billions Qaddafi had on deposit for African development Projects.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2011/05/31/goldman-sachs-lost-98-of-libyas-1-3b-sovereign-wealth-fund-investment/

so, Its ALL good!
Mission Accomplished!






 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
11. Exactly. NATO = US Military.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:44 PM
Apr 2012

So guess what they mean by saying "NATO" needs to upgrade their equipment. MIC trying to rob more money from the US and other European countries.

tabatha

(18,795 posts)
12. Some of your posts are out of date.
Mon Apr 16, 2012, 06:04 PM
Apr 2012

The flags were NOT Al Qaeda. They were flown for 2-3 hours on the Benghazi courthouse before being taken down.

The Western banks lost the money BEFORE the uprising.

The government has taken over the prisons, and prisoners are being treated properly.

If you have anything to say, make sure it is correct and current.

And if you cannot find current stuff, here is a good source:

http://tweepforum.ly/

And btw, most Libyans are grateful to NATO.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
13. My posts are out of date...
Mon Apr 16, 2012, 08:16 PM
Apr 2012

...because there is a black out on hard news from inside Libya.
If you can provide credible news sources from inside Libya,
I'm listening, especially for documentation that "most" Libyans are grateful to NATO.

Certainly the people flying the Al Qaeda flags and celebrating in the streets of Benghazi are grateful to NATO.
I don't doubt THAT. You can see it in their faces.


The last credible source I read (Human Rights Watch) reported the Ethnic Cleansing was continuing unabated in Western Libya with no intervention by the Rebel "transitional" "government". I can find very little hard information except from the Human Rights Watch documentation of the ongoing atrocities and War Crimes.

"Despite commitments by Libya’s transitional government to stem abuses, Human Rights Watch has documented ongoing killings, torture, and forced displacement by militias. A UN Commission of Inquiry report on March 2 found that anti-Gaddafi militias in Misrata had committed war crimes and crimes against humanity during the conflict, and apparently crimes against humanity in the period since. The government has proven incapable of reining in these militias or holding to account those responsible for abuses."

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/03/16/libya-human-rights-council-monitoring-needed


So, how is that Islamic Law thing coming?
Are women allowed to vote in the poll you cited that "Most" Libyans are grateful to NATO?


Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»NATO Sees Flaws in Air Ca...