with the oil industry are making plans to downsize. There are going to be a large number of engineers looking for jobs. BP has already made announcements and I hear others companies are also meeting with their employees to say there are going to be downsizing.

Recent engineering grads going into petroleum engineering have enjoyed the highest starting salaries of any engineering discipline, if I am not mistaken.

Salary Survey: Top-Paid Majors for the Class of 2014

Wow - the second highest starting salary is not even close.

And we wonder why the world is falling apart?

The world is falling apart because of all the engineers? I don't get it.

Full disclosure: I am an engineer.

I see the plight of the planet as the inevitable result of engineering, at every level from the genome to the geochemistry of the planet itself.

Full disclosure - I'm a recovering computer scientist.

You're saying that we should have never "engineered" that polio or small pox vaccine? Or maybe the Aids or cancer treatment "engineered" treatments?

I mean if we would not have "engineered" some of those things then we could of had massive kill offs and we'd not need the oil? I mean, heck who needs "engineered cars" or a sewer system, they just pollute and we'd be healthier walking and letting our waste dump into the streets.

Since you think that you are "part of the problem" and firmly set in your convictions then MY GOD MAN "OFF YOURSELF" ALREADY! The guilt you shoulder must be unbearable living there in that cave shivering while refusing to use fire....at least go over to the neighboring cave and ask if you warm yourself by their fire. That will at least give you time to re-consider before you freeze to death.

I say this based on my relatively recent understanding of the laws of non-equilibrium thermodynamics, complex systems, cybernetics, evolution by natural selection, the hard-wired nature of our decision-making circuitry, and the amount of stored, high-density energy available on the planet. No blame attaches to it, really - it's just who and what we are.

I wasn't able to come to this conclusion until after I'd left the engineering world, though. For people who are still fully embedded in the scientific/technological mindset, such conclusions, with their faint odor of Ted Kaczynski, are literally unthinkable.

I left it a few years ago and "retired".

Funny thing is though is that when I retired I purchased some property in the middle of nowhere and started "homesteading" to some extent. I am still young (44) but done well enough (started a business at age 29 and sold it at 40) to "check out" and live a modest life. Now don't get me wrong, I am not by any means "roughing it" as I do have a nice 3000 sqft log home and a small 900ft log cabin "guest house". But I do put in a super large organic garden, have a pig, chickens, etc. My "religion" if I have any is to be as self-sufficient as I can be by providing healthy things for me and my family of 5. Also a beautiful thing within my religion is sitting on my front porch, watching mother nature and thinking "If there is a heaven then this is it".

I guess I still like being a part of it and help to foster it (my religion and nature) along the way with as much help as possible.

And my "engineering practices" here on my homestead are about 100 years behind what is typical today but I did buy a used tractor to save my back.

Oh, I hear you loud and clear but I think you should "reel yourself back in a bit" and look at both sides of the equation.

Sounds like you have yourself a little slice of heaven. I like your approach.

We all have more sides than we normally show on the intertubes. My alter ego is a Taoist monk. He has a very different view of the world than I do. He has found it possible to become fully aware of the calamity and what has contributed to it, and also to cultivate humility, moderation and compassion along the Way. We each think the other is a fool.

all definitely have alter egos, I have one that pops up every once in awhile that says to my other self:

"Why are you doing all this work just so you can do without"

The good news is though that at age 44 I am now once again the same weight I was at age 16 (160lbs) and I can honestly say that I am in better physical shape as far as muscles and strength now than I was at age 20 in the military. Lots of physical work, of which had been missing for over 20+ years or so. I guess I put in at least 40-60 hours of physical work a week, it is a full time job.

Oh and it is a "slice of heaven". You should see the beautiful stream that comes rolling down the middle of my property, crystal clear water that comes from a cavern, passes through my land then dumps into a hole in the ground after it leaves my property. One can hear the water rushing over the 5 waterfalls when on the front porch.

Good luck to you.

engineers. I also know BP is downsizing, the supporting companies such as engineering companies are downsizing. Yes they have had great hiring rates, now it appears they are going to downsize, lay off, out of a job for engineers. The companies I talk with know with the price of oil down they are not going to be exploring and therefore they will not need the support of engineers. They have engineers who have years experience and they will not have a job, no salary.

That's a punch line (more or less) to a joke that I can't tell here.

How many job ad you see or how much activity is happening, it isn't cost effective to produce oil with it at $50 a barrel, it cost the companies to deliver the oil.

say 6-9 months.

From what I have read they are expecting around 250-300K layoffs in "oil". By the math the impact of a high paying "oil job" adds 1.8 more jobs to the economy, so it's factor of 2.8 x 275K = 770K job losses.

Hopefully the money we as consumers save in gas stays in the economy and shifts over to decent paying jobs vs. min wage jobs and we get some hiring other sectors to offset the loses....but chances are since we are "services" heavy economy that money shift will add low paying retail jobs.

I'd say that most workers in "oil" were making over $100K a year pretty easily, gonna be hard paying for all those $50K trucks, $30K boats and $400K homes....there will be a ripple.

IOW the money goes straight back to the banks and never enters the consumer-level economy at all.

know I had a line added in above that said "If consumers use the gas savings to pay down debt then we are in trouble"

...but I deleted it.

I think the money will go to pay down debt and we will see total jobs losses from this to be around 600K or so...it is going to hurt.

I'd say we bail them out. Just like we had the Bush/Obama bail out of GM, this is no different. Sure we want "cheap oil" as consumers, but if we would have not bailed out GM then we would of had cheap cars and a great buying opportunity for Joe 6 pack on automobiles.

Those oil jobs are no different than automotive jobs except for the average oil worker makes a heck of a lot more money than the average auto worker. I think laborers start out around $75K a year. I know of "trades guys" that packed up to move their families out there as they could make $150K a year with a skilled technical background (2 year tech degree/community college degree).

Oil jobs are high paying jobs. I know I graduated college in 96 with an engineering degree. I had a guy from Kuwait in my class who's family were big in oil. I am pretty sure he was a "prince". Upon graduation his family made the offer that if any of us (that graduated with him/made friends with him) wanted to come work in their oil business in Kuwait that they'd pay us $200K starting out, house and feed us. They were especially interested in me as I had some time in the region as a combat soldier in the 1st Gulf war.

The Williston, North Dakota, Herald has a special section on job openings. Here is the one from December 2104:

Bakken Recruiter

I really don't understand what you are trying to say here. Sure I looked at the link, but am not really sure what you are getting at, I could take it several ways but do not want to take it wrong or try and assume what you are saying...can you help me here?

They just illustrate what you were saying. That's all.

Best wishes.

as that is what I assumed you were getting at, but I just wasn't sure and didn't want to make the assumption for any conversation that might pop up in moving forward.

To Add:

That was in early December....I wonder what their "late January/Early February" section will look like...me thinks it will not resemble the one in the link! I am thinking the local newspaper will have to lay off at least 1 employee as that was some pretty good revenue just in the "help wanted" section.....ripples.

I can see that my post could have left the impression that I was suggesting that you pack up and move out there. I am sorry if I left that impression.

The Williston newspaper is usually on top of all things Bakken. Housing prices and crime have skyrocketed in western North Dakota. With oil below $50/barrel, life in Williston in 2015 will not be like life in Williston in 2014.

Best wishes.

... who will be in no position to pay down debt even with the reduced cost of gasoline. There are others who should pay down debt but won't.

In any event, for every person who is hurt by lower oil prices, there are 10,000+ who are helped. If paying more for something for no reason but to put people to work was a good idea, we could solve all our economic problems with the wave of a wand.

you are saying is that bailing out GM was good for jobs but bailing out "evil oil" is bad.....I got ya.

And about waving that wand: What do you think we have been doing over the past 7 years or so? There has been a lot of "wand waving going on" and money printing.

I mean we could of had 10,000+ people for every auto job lost getting the chance to buy cheaper foreign oil....oops I meant CARS.

And we have been trying to "wave that wand" for 7-8 years now by bailing out a lot of industries, why should we discriminate against oil?

I was so excited about "alternative energy" especially solar and was getting pretty close to investing in going off the grid and investing the $30K to do my place. With oil this low now it is not even close to being economically feasible. This will set back the solar industry by years (I am sure they are ready with pink slips since oil is so cheap now)....oh wait, cheap oil means this sector will get hammered also? Yep, and Banks and 401K's...this is big. We are still in a teetering economy, this cheap oil may just cancel any gains we've made over the past 5 years.....is losing 5 years of gains worth a bail out?

.... but somehow I don't think you'd get it. This has NO COMPARISON WHATSOEVER to the auto industry, I will say that.

no, please do, I am interested in achieving your level of enlightenment where one can simply ignore real world actions and reactions.

I'll be waiting.

.. I just put folks like you on ignore. You really have nothing to offer if you think an arbitrary rise in a commodity price to benefit a few is somehow viable economic policy.

You have every reason to "run and hide" and that is exactly what i expected you to do. I could see it coming from a mile away.

Wow, someone with 17K posts +, and nothing to add, you must spend an awful lot of time posting pics of your pets and "+1000" as you obviously neither have a life nor can argue a point.

Figures. Can't back up what you claim.


haha, "ignore"....wow, I am on "ignore" That must be important to someone with as many as irrelevant to posts as you.

...will be heard and felt to the farthest corners of the globe.

- But in some places it'll be deafening......

K&R

Which States Stand To Lose The Most From The Crude Collapse