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Lucky Luciano

(11,257 posts)
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 02:33 PM Jan 2015

Russian Credit Rating Lowered to Junk by S&P, Outlook Negative

Source: Bloomberg

Headline

Read more: Headline on my Bloomberg Terninal



ruble was already taking s hit from this weekend's events. It spiked further on this. Now 68 rubles per dollar from 63.5 and 32 from a year ago.

Bad news Vlad.
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Russian Credit Rating Lowered to Junk by S&P, Outlook Negative (Original Post) Lucky Luciano Jan 2015 OP
Pooty Poot is gonna find out the REAL Golden Rule. riqster Jan 2015 #1
I agree with you Plucketeer Jan 2015 #2
He knows - he has the billions he appropriated over the years stashed. blm Jan 2015 #14
Yes, he's approaching Koch brother immunity at this point. Ruble, mooble. Won't matter. freshwest Jan 2015 #19
good rtracey Jan 2015 #3
How is Putin going to fund his dream of reconquering the old USSR countries now? FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #4
Perhaps he can dip into his personal fortune, estimated at between $40 & $70 billion. How does a... Tarheel_Dem Jan 2015 #32
Maybe he can borrrow money from China...... DeSwiss Jan 2015 #37
Not sure it is altogether wise to continue to poke at the bear... truebrit71 Jan 2015 #5
A valid point. nt Lucky Luciano Jan 2015 #6
Apparently "cornered animals" run to China for a bailout FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #7
China is going to end up owning Russia. samsingh Jan 2015 #8
Just like they own America? truebrit71 Jan 2015 #12
I was thinking the same thing - much more civilized than the WestSeattle2 Jan 2015 #15
Sun Tzu would heartily approve The Green Manalishi Jan 2015 #35
it's heading that way samsingh Jan 2015 #42
Spoken like someone who has not a clue of what they're talking about. n/t DeSwiss Jan 2015 #38
what does that mean? samsingh Jan 2015 #41
Well, if said animal is being poked at from within a cage snooper2 Jan 2015 #11
Nice to see brains rather than brawn accomplishing what's necessary. drm604 Jan 2015 #9
I love winning wars without shedding blood. Ykcutnek Jan 2015 #10
Corpmedia was SO right - Putin definitely outsmarted Obama and Kerry. blm Jan 2015 #13
This is sad news uhnope Jan 2015 #16
The Russians seem to love him though FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #17
I know what you mean. uhnope Jan 2015 #28
Wonder if anyone bragging about Putin's anti-West Asian Economy feat knew it was a sell-out. freshwest Jan 2015 #22
S&P to pay nearly $80 million to settle fraud probes instead of $1.5 billion ? jakeXT Jan 2015 #18
+100. S&P = fraud. Yet we're supposed to go "oooh" when they downgrade russia's credit ND-Dem Jan 2015 #21
Wasn't S&P the agency that rated the junk coming out before the financial crash triple AAA? ND-Dem Jan 2015 #20
China called it "modern financial magic" jakeXT Jan 2015 #23
Sovereigns are easier to rate. Lucky Luciano Jan 2015 #24
bullshit. it's a political move, and there's likely a quid pro quo involved. like S&P gets off ND-Dem Jan 2015 #25
Maybe that too, but a downgrade is also well deserved with s crushed ruble and oil. nt Lucky Luciano Jan 2015 #26
It certainly won't hurt their plea for leniency... truebrit71 Jan 2015 #29
Yours is a creative allegation based on little more than post hoc ergo prompter hoc... LanternWaste Jan 2015 #33
can we all agree Economic WWIII has been lovuian Jan 2015 #27
ruble was already taking s hit from this weekend's events. Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2015 #30
Haha..."a hit" was intended. The iPhone thought otherwise. Lucky Luciano Jan 2015 #31
Oh, S&P lowered Russian credit rating one notch...from where they lowered snappyturtle Jan 2015 #34
This is meaningless Sgent Jan 2015 #39
Just as the discredited credit rating by S&P is to Russia. I think it's snappyturtle Jan 2015 #40
S&P are the same people...... DeSwiss Jan 2015 #36

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
4. How is Putin going to fund his dream of reconquering the old USSR countries now?
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 02:48 PM
Jan 2015

That might have to go on hold for a couple of years.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,235 posts)
32. Perhaps he can dip into his personal fortune, estimated at between $40 & $70 billion. How does a...
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 05:32 PM
Jan 2015

former KGB agent amass that kind of wealth, in such a short period of time?

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
37. Maybe he can borrrow money from China......
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:28 PM
Jan 2015

...like we've been doing for ages.

- Since the Chinese won't be lending to us much longer once the dollar crashes and burns.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
5. Not sure it is altogether wise to continue to poke at the bear...
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 02:51 PM
Jan 2015

...cornered animals can be very unpredictable...

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
7. Apparently "cornered animals" run to China for a bailout
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 02:57 PM
Jan 2015
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/china-throws-lifeline-to-russia-amid-economic-crisis/

China is providing an economic lifeline to Russia by boosting its imports of Russian oil, the Wall Street Journal reports.

Russia’s economy has deteriorated with the recent drop in oil prices and levying of sanctions from the West in response to the Kremlin’s destabilization of Ukraine. Moscow has now turned to Beijing for support despite their long-time rivalry:



Not a bad deal for China. Lock in Russia's oil long term at cheap prices while gaining financial clout over Putin.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
12. Just like they own America?
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 03:26 PM
Jan 2015

How about that, achieve total world dominance without so much as firing a shot...

WestSeattle2

(1,730 posts)
15. I was thinking the same thing - much more civilized than the
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:09 PM
Jan 2015

old school bullets and drones method. Move war funding from the military-industrial complex to the financial sector. Now there's a shock.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
16. This is sad news
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:18 PM
Jan 2015

Putin is driving Russia into a giant ditch.
The worse the conditions and news = more crackdowns on gays, progressives, free press, and more warmaking on Ukraine to get his polls up.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
28. I know what you mean.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:59 PM
Jan 2015

Yes, in the long-term it might help get rid of Putin, but then Russia will still be a basket case economically and in terms of human rights.

I'm just saying that though it's good in some ways for Putin to reap what he sows like this, it's sad for the Russian people, for gays and progressives and journalists in Russia.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
22. Wonder if anyone bragging about Putin's anti-West Asian Economy feat knew it was a sell-out.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:30 PM
Jan 2015

For the Russians, that is. By the time the deed is done, it'll be too late as their modern civilization collapses.

But some want a return to the days prior to the USSR itself, to theocratic feudalism, the real story behind the headlines. Just as the Koch/ GOP wants to return the USA, not to the era of the Constitution as first written, which is egregrious enough without the Amendments, but to the Articles of the Confederation.

Or better yet, a Mussolini style regime, with Stalinesque means. They're getting it by piecemeal.

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
18. S&P to pay nearly $80 million to settle fraud probes instead of $1.5 billion ?
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:20 PM
Jan 2015
S&P may pay $1.5 billion to settle mortgage rating lawsuit


...

S&P, a unit of McGraw Hill Financial MHFI 0.20% , is trying to resolve lawsuits filed by the U.S. Department of Justice and more than a dozen states that accused it of inflating credit ratings to win more business from issuers.

It had previously been expected to pay slightly more than $1 billion to settle, another person familiar with the matter told Reuters last week. The final amount could fluctuate as more states sign on, that person said.

In a civil fraud lawsuit filed in February 2013, the Justice Department claimed that investors lost billions of dollars after buying mortgage-backed debt whose risks had been misrepresented by S&P.

The government said insured institutions had suffered more than $5 billion in losses, and sought to recoup that amount from S&P.

http://fortune.com/2015/01/20/sp-may-pay-1-5-billion-to-settle-mortgage-rating-lawsuit/



S&P to pay nearly $80 million to settle fraud probes

Standard & Poor’s, the credit rating agency blamed for helping inflate the subprime mortgage bubble, has now settled accusations that it orchestrated a similar fraud years after the bubble burst.

S&P, owned by McGraw Hill, has agreed to settle an array of government investigations stemming from 2011, paying nearly $80 million, federal and state authorities announced Wednesday. As part of the deals, reached with the Securities and Exchange Commission and the attorneys general in New York and Massachusetts, S&P agreed to take a one-year “timeout” from rating certain commercial mortgage investments at the heart of the case, an embarrassing blow to the rating agency.

“Investors rely on credit rating agencies like Standard & Poor’s to play it straight when rating complex securities like CMBS,” Andrew Ceresney, the SEC’s enforcement director, said in a statement, referring to commercial mortgage-backed securities. “But Standard & Poor’s elevated its own financial interests above investors by loosening its rating criteria to obtain business and then obscuring these changes from investors.”

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/S-P-to-pay-nearly-80-million-to-settle-fraud-6030672.php
 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
21. +100. S&P = fraud. Yet we're supposed to go "oooh" when they downgrade russia's credit
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:28 PM
Jan 2015

rating.

Like they're some neutral agent.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
20. Wasn't S&P the agency that rated the junk coming out before the financial crash triple AAA?
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:26 PM
Jan 2015

Why is what they say deserving of attention anymore anyway?

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
23. China called it "modern financial magic"
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:32 PM
Jan 2015

Mr Zhou also advocated a more active Chinese participation in the setting of international rules. He said the existing playbook had been made by developed Western countries and developing nations had no choice but to follow these rules.

However, China's population and economic size now demanded it be heard on the international stage.

The report also took a snipe at the big three agencies' role in the global financial crisis, criticising their triple-A rating of subprime mortgage products as "modern financial magic".

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/china-takes-on-the-big-three-ratings-agencies-20120124-1qexw.html

Lucky Luciano

(11,257 posts)
24. Sovereigns are easier to rate.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:33 PM
Jan 2015

It really is hard to argue that investing in Russia is a good idea, so it was inevitable that a downgrade would happen.

Now a lot of funds that are not allowed to invest in junk must divest. Snowball effects coming.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
25. bullshit. it's a political move, and there's likely a quid pro quo involved. like S&P gets off
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:34 PM
Jan 2015

with a slap for their own fraud.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
33. Yours is a creative allegation based on little more than post hoc ergo prompter hoc...
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 05:48 PM
Jan 2015

Yours is a creative allegation based on little more than post hoc ergo prompter hoc...

lovuian

(19,362 posts)
27. can we all agree Economic WWIII has been
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 04:39 PM
Jan 2015

declared

Economic Sanctions are declarations of war
Japan took it that way in WWII

 

Elmer S. E. Dump

(5,751 posts)
30. ruble was already taking s hit from this weekend's events.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 05:17 PM
Jan 2015

Was the ruble taking a shit or just a hit? I guess either way works...

Lucky Luciano

(11,257 posts)
31. Haha..."a hit" was intended. The iPhone thought otherwise.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 05:23 PM
Jan 2015

I left it partly out of laziness and partly because it is also sensible!

snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
34. Oh, S&P lowered Russian credit rating one notch...from where they lowered
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:06 PM
Jan 2015

it last April to one notch above junk. I can't think of any economy that's in good shape. Russia and China have formed a joint credit rating agency soon to be functional. This rating by S&P is a political move from a less than credible agency in the first place.

http://defence.pk/threads/china-and-russia-to-launch-new-credit-rating-agency-in-2015.353559/

"When the issue of creating an agency alternative to the ‘Big Three’ [Standard & Poor's, Moody's, and Fitch Group] was raised, we in fact offered [a] project that was ready to be launched and was supported by the governments of Russia and China," Ovchinnikov said.

Developed economies are often given a free credit rating pass, whereas developing economies are assigned more risky ratings, the RusRating analyst said.

UCRG was officially created in June 2013 by China’s Dagon, Russia’s RusRating and America's Egan-Jones Ratings. Each member will hold an equal share in the venture, with an initial investment of $9 million

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
39. This is meaningless
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 12:26 AM
Jan 2015

Credit ratings are only relevant to the people who listen to them (large mutual funds, hedge funds, etc.). Just because China and Russia form a ratings agency, doesn't mean anyone cares. If for instance a pension fund is required to hold investment grade bonds as rated by Moody's, S&P, Lippor, etc., a Chinese ratings agency rating them investment grade won't mean anything to investors outside China.

That being said, I could see such an agency, over time and assuming no political interference, being very useful in rating debts originating in those countries, such as debt for a road, sewage and water improvements, local corporations, etc. S&P et al don't rate most of those issues, and it could be a very good thing overall for price transparency and risk management.

Sovereign debt will still be rated by the big boys, and the only difference a Chinese / Russian rating agency can make is if they get someone to listen to them.

snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
40. Just as the discredited credit rating by S&P is to Russia. I think it's
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 09:34 AM
Jan 2015

going to be very interesting to watch how the economic alliances pan out. (I also wonder if lost little lamb Greece will be lured by the BRICS to jump the EU ship.)

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
36. S&P are the same people......
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:26 PM
Jan 2015

...who rated subprime deriviatives as a ''buy'', so anyone who listens and decides where to invest based on what these assholes say, must be an idiot or as crooked as they are.

- Fuck 'em.

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