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Eugene

(61,948 posts)
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:47 AM Dec 2014

Ferguson prosecutor says witnesses in Darren Wilson case lied under oath

Source: The Guardian

Ferguson prosecutor says witnesses in Darren Wilson case lied under oath

Nicky Woolfin New York
theguardian.com, Friday 19 December 2014 20.43 GMT

Some witnesses who appeared before the grand jury investigating the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown were “clearly not telling the truth,” according to the St Louis county prosecutor, Robert McCulloch.

In his first public interview since announcing the grand jury’s decision not to indict officer Darren Wilson, McCulloch told local radio station KTRS that he had decided to put witnesses forward to testify regardless of their credibility.

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The admission came just days after The Smoking Gun, an investigative site which publishes government, police and other documents, claimed to have identified a key grand jury witness and raised serious questions about the credibility of her testimony.

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In her grand jury testimony, “Witness 40” described in detail how Michael Brown bent down “in a football position” and charged at officer Darren Wilson – an account often quoted in discussion of the case by rightwing commentators such as Fox News’s Sean Hannity.

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Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/19/ferguson-prosecutor-witnesses-darren-wilson-michael-brown

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ferguson prosecutor says witnesses in Darren Wilson case lied under oath (Original Post) Eugene Dec 2014 OP
Liar Liar Pants on Fire JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #1
I wonder Feral Child Dec 2014 #3
You don't have to be in a white separatist group JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #4
Oh, I agree. Feral Child Dec 2014 #21
I think McCulloch needs to have his chervilant Dec 2014 #7
Plus 10000000 n/t JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #17
What about McCulloch??? Derek V Dec 2014 #10
Not one f*ck to give about her bi polar disorder JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #16
She may be Feral Child Dec 2014 #23
She needs to be prosecuted. Feral Child Dec 2014 #2
She won't be JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #5
Well, we already knew of his bias. Feral Child Dec 2014 #19
should any witness who lied be prosecuted? pipoman Dec 2014 #6
Under oath? Feral Child Dec 2014 #18
just checking if this only applies to those you disagree with pipoman Dec 2014 #22
I think you're attempting Feral Child Dec 2014 #24
Glad you pushed back at that JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #29
The scene you described- Feral Child Dec 2014 #30
I shared that with my husband JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #31
I know. Feral Child Dec 2014 #32
Pretending that the liars from both sides weren't given equal time pipoman Dec 2014 #36
Thank you, Officer. Feral Child Dec 2014 #37
Witness #41 for example Leontius Dec 2014 #33
Look, I already answered that question. Feral Child Dec 2014 #34
Yes you have certainly shown your agenda doesn't in anyway concern a search for the truth. Leontius Dec 2014 #35
I gather he didn't 't bother to cross examine her. He saved his questions for the anti-Wilson wits. Shrike47 Dec 2014 #8
Prosecutor turbinetree Dec 2014 #9
Mccullough should be disbarred, and prosecuted. Faryn Balyncd Dec 2014 #12
Proactively the RW media has already labeled the other witnesses as perjurors underpants Dec 2014 #11
And nothing will happen. imthevicar Dec 2014 #13
I'm suspecting one in this thread. Feral Child Dec 2014 #20
The prosecutor suborned perjury by knowingly putting a lying witness on the stand. truebluegreen Dec 2014 #14
No justice abelenkpe Dec 2014 #15
Rachel Maddow did a brilliant analysis of this matter on her show, last night. Paladin Dec 2014 #25
What is more important is that you put witnesses #10 and #40 on the stand knowing they were jwirr Dec 2014 #26
what are we gonna do about it? ask people to vote for the Pub? MisterP Dec 2014 #27
In the interest of the Democratic Party's respect for reality ... JEFF9K Dec 2014 #28

JustAnotherGen

(31,896 posts)
1. Liar Liar Pants on Fire
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 08:08 AM
Dec 2014

And still - no perjury charges?

This, too, appeared to be corroborated by McCulloch. “There are people who came in and, yes, absolutely lied under oath. Some lied to the FBI – even though they aren’t under oath, that’s another potential federal offence.” He added that he had allowed them to testify anyway because he had felt “it was much more important to present the entire picture”.

He said his department was not planning to pursue perjury charges.

The Smoking Gun reported that McElroy often posted online about the case after Michael Brown’s shooting, but before “Witness 40” went to the police with her story. In one reply to a post on Facebook about the case, McElroy said, “The report and autopsy are in so YES they were false.”

McElroy also reportedly regularly posted racial slurs about Brown in particular, and black people in general.


This country? We are a disgrace! There is no justice if that little asshole liar doesn't get her comeuppance!

JustAnotherGen

(31,896 posts)
4. You don't have to be in a white separatist group
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 08:25 AM
Dec 2014

To be a prejudiced bigot throwing race cards around. This is a perfect example of a white American putting the race card in the deck, playing their hand - then walking around all "innocent and who me?".

She will never feel the tiniest bit of pain for her actions.

It's like I'm always saying - these punks and thugs always get away with it.

And I don't care about the mental illness ploy - its not an excuse and we need to stop doing that. Thousands of people with bi polar disorder DON'T do shit like this!

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
21. Oh, I agree.
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 01:38 PM
Dec 2014

I was making a sardonic reference to her time in prison for perjury.

She'll most definitely need a "support-group" there, and not for therapy. Aryan Nation began as a prison gang.


I'm afraid my joke was too obscure.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
7. I think McCulloch needs to have his
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 08:49 AM
Dec 2014

a** handed to him on a plate.

(AND, they need to bring charges against Wilson for murdering that child!)

 

Derek V

(532 posts)
10. What about McCulloch???
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 09:32 AM
Dec 2014
He's the one who belongs behind bars! As for the woman, my understanding is that she's mentally ill.

JustAnotherGen

(31,896 posts)
16. Not one f*ck to give about her bi polar disorder
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 12:51 PM
Dec 2014

My friend Robin has it and has neveeeerr done anything like this stunt. Thousands and thousands of people with bi polar disorder neveeeeer do anything like this.

Shame on her! Her ignorance and racial prejudice can't be used as an excuse either.

Besides if she was a mentally ill black man she would have been murdered by the cops. She's lucky.

McDick there will never get his ass town in jail.

I hope he chews very carefully.

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
23. She may be
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 01:43 PM
Dec 2014

but she's also a perjurer, and her illness doesn't constitute an excuse for her crime.

I hope she gets treatment whilst incarcerated, but she certainly belongs in prison.


To my limited knowledge the prosecutor hasn't committed a crime, but he's certainly guilty of several ethics violations and deserves disbarment and whatever fines are allowed.

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
19. Well, we already knew of his bias.
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 01:24 PM
Dec 2014

The justice system in this country has always had a bad reputation. It's quickly becoming actually perverse.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
22. just checking if this only applies to those you disagree with
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 01:38 PM
Dec 2014

Surely there was enough lying on both sides to keep a courtroom busy for a while...

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
24. I think you're attempting
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 01:47 PM
Dec 2014

a cynical ploy to excuse a killer cop. I prefer discussing matters with those not concealing their hidden agenda.

Go find someone else to try to hustle.

JustAnotherGen

(31,896 posts)
29. Glad you pushed back at that
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 02:53 PM
Dec 2014

Its like I was saying to Bravenak the other day -

If I had a 6 month old baby with a pacifier that some inbred with a badge and a gun murdered in cold blood - America's apologists would come to DU and say his pacifier was some obscure gang sign and he once cried on a plane so he had it coming - little "thug"

Sick country eh?

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
30. The scene you described-
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 03:24 PM
Dec 2014

the ridiculous statements from the Apologists-I burst out laughing! My cat stopped washing his privates to glare at me.

"Pointergate". And that news guy complaining about the "Terrorist Fist Thrust". I nearly wet myself from their nonsense.

Then I sober a bit and think, "But there are people out there nodding in agreement." They actually believe these things!
That's a bit frightening. How absolutely deranged, how full of hate, to be able to convince yourself of anything like that? It isn't stupidity, it isn't ignorance or naivete. They just want to believe it.

And, thanks for your support of my comment. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with the smug assholes any more. They're disruptive jerks. They like making you angry, see it as some kind of verification.


Yep. Sick country.



JustAnotherGen

(31,896 posts)
31. I shared that with my husband
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 04:20 PM
Dec 2014

Over the phone right after that jury in Florida patted Trayvon Martin's murderer on the back, gave him a gold star and sent him on his way. . .

He laughed too!

But they would feral - they woud believe it. Sick, sick, sick.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
36. Pretending that the liars from both sides weren't given equal time
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 08:12 AM
Dec 2014

In the proceedings is simply dishonesty...no, I think you really like discussing this with other pretenders filled with feigned outrage and pretending to be oblivious to the actual reality of the situation. ..carry on. ..

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
34. Look, I already answered that question.
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 08:26 PM
Dec 2014

and told the questioner what I think of cop-apologists. Go shine your badge and feel noble somewhere else.

 

Leontius

(2,270 posts)
35. Yes you have certainly shown your agenda doesn't in anyway concern a search for the truth.
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 08:41 PM
Dec 2014

Sad really sad but not unexpected.

turbinetree

(24,720 posts)
9. Prosecutor
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 09:23 AM
Dec 2014

Since the DA has basically admitted that he knew and still brought this person before a grand jury so "all the evidence" could be heard on its face is an attempt to subvert the tribunal for other means.
He should be held and in all probability will be held in contempt and he should be brought before the bar to have his license looked at for ethics violations.
He knows that he cannot bring forth someone that has no credibility in proceedings of this kind.
Now the governor should or will have to call for a special prosecutor and reconvene the grand jury, there is no alternative unless they bring the case to the court for probable cause, which a independent team will have to do.
This hypocrite prosecutor is in big trouble, no one has right to determine the outcome of a case to justify the ends, and no one is above the law.

Faryn Balyncd

(5,125 posts)
12. Mccullough should be disbarred, and prosecuted.
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 10:18 AM
Dec 2014

Last edited Sat Dec 20, 2014, 04:24 PM - Edit history (1)





McCullough has documented past history of lying to Grand Jury and to the press re: GJ testimony:



On the afternoon of June 12, 2000, two unarmed black men pulled into the parking lot of a Jack in the Box in the northern suburbs of St. Louis, just a few miles from where Michael Brown was killed by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, earlier this month....In the car were Earl Murray, a small-time drug dealer, and his friend Ronald Beasley. Waiting for them were a dozen detectives. By the time Murray realized it was a sting, he was surrounded. Panicked, he put his car into reverse but slammed into a police SUV behind him. Two officers approaching the car from the front opened fire. Twenty-one shots rained down on Murray and Beasley.

In an ensuing investigation, the local prosecutor, Robert P. McCulloch, put the case to a grand jury, citizens who receive evidence under the instruction, questioning and watchful eye of the prosecutor to decide whether to press charges. The story presented to the grand jury was that Murray’s car moved toward the two officers, who then fired out of self-defense. The grand jury declined to indict the officers, and McCulloch said he agreed with the decision. . . . . . . . . . . .

Fourteen years ago, the two officers who shot Murray and Beasley were also invited to testify before the grand jury. Both men told jurors that Murray’s car was coming at them and that they feared being run over. McCulloch said that “every witness who was out there testified that it made some forward motion.” But a later federal investigation showed that the car had never come at the two officers: Murray never took his car out of reverse...An exhaustive St. Louis Post-Dispatch investigation found that only three of the 13 detectives who testified had said the car moved forward: the two who unloaded their guns and a third whose testimony was, as McCulloch admitted, “obviously…completely wrong.” McCulloch never introduced independent evidence to help clarify for the grand jury whether Murray’s car moved forward.

http://www.newsweek.com/ferguson-prosecutor-robert-p-mccullochs-long-history-siding-police-267357?piano_d=1






In 2000, in the so-called "Jack in the Box" case, two undercover officers, a police officer and a Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) officer, shot and killed two unarmed black men in the parking lot of a Jack in the Box fast-food restaurant in Berkeley, Missouri. In 2001, the officers told a grand jury convened by McCulloch that the suspects tried to escape arrest and then drove toward them; the jury declined to indict. McCulloch told the public that every witness had testified to confirm this version, but St. Louis Post-Dispatch journalist Michael Sorkin reviewed the previously secret grand jury tapes, released to him by McCulloch, and found that McCulloch's statement was untrue: only three of 13 officers testified that the car was moving forward. A subsequent federal investigation found that the men were unarmed and that their car had not moved forward when the officers fired 21 shots; nevertheless, federal investigators decided that the shooting was justified because the officers feared for their safety. McCulloch also drew controversy when he said of the victims: "These guys were bums.". . . . . .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_P._McCulloch_%28prosecutor%29







In Texas, Former Williamson County prosecutor and later District Judge was disbarred, indicted, convicted and given a slap-on-the-wrist 10 day jail sentence for knowingly withholding favorable evidence. It would seem knowingly presenting false evidence, especially for a prosecutor with a documented history of lying, merits action:






Ken Anderson agreed to give up his law license and serve ten days in jail for hiding favorable evidence to secure Morton's 1987 conviction for a murder he did not commit.


The news last Friday that former Williamson County district judge Ken Anderson would have to serve jail time and forfeit his law license for withholding exculpatory evidence in the Michael Morton case was initially heralded as historic and unprecedented.

Anderson, who prosecuted Morton in 1987 for the murder of his wife, Christine, had long insisted that he had committed no wrongdoing, even after Morton was exonerated in 2011 by DNA evidence. But last week he finally capitulated, pleading no contest to felony charges of criminal contempt of court. The New York Times opined that Anderson’s ten-day jail sentence was “insultingly short” in comparison to the nearly 25 years that Morton spent behind bars, but added that “because prosecutors are so rarely held accountable for their misconduct, the sentence is remarkable nonetheless.” Mark Godsey, the director of the Ohio Innocence Project, took to the Huffington Post to declare that this marked “the first time ever” that a prosecutor had been sent to jail for withholding evidence. “What’s newsworthy and novel,” Godsey wrote, “is that a prosecutor was actually punished in a meaningful way for his transgressions.” . . . .

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/jail-time-may-be-least-ken-anderson%E2%80%99s-problems

















underpants

(182,879 posts)
11. Proactively the RW media has already labeled the other witnesses as perjurors
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 10:02 AM
Dec 2014

That was cemented as soon as the grand jury ended.

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
20. I'm suspecting one in this thread.
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 01:26 PM
Dec 2014

I was asked a very odd question. So odd expect the poster has some very deviant intentions.


EDIT: Yes, he just exposed himself. Why DU allows this disruptive behavior is beyond comprehension.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
14. The prosecutor suborned perjury by knowingly putting a lying witness on the stand.
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 10:32 AM
Dec 2014

He should be prosecuted and disciplined, if not disbarred.

And the case should be re-opened with a special prosecutor.

Paladin

(28,272 posts)
25. Rachel Maddow did a brilliant analysis of this matter on her show, last night.
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 02:06 PM
Dec 2014

Short version: By any reasonable, existing, well-understood standards, that prosecutor fucked up, big time. Authorities (including the state and local bar associations) should be preparing to nail him.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
26. What is more important is that you put witnesses #10 and #40 on the stand knowing they were
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 02:27 PM
Dec 2014

lying. I blame him.

JEFF9K

(1,935 posts)
28. In the interest of the Democratic Party's respect for reality ...
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 02:46 PM
Dec 2014

were their lies pointing in the other direction?

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