Poorer than Greece: the EU countries that reject a new Athens bailout
Europes great Greek crisis is often cast as the downtrodden Hellenic heroes versus the ubermasters of austerity in Berlin. In reality, however, it is smaller nations that have faced crisis themselves, swallowed the austerity medicine and lived to tell the tale who are most hostile to another bailout for Athens.
From central European minnows such as Slovakia to Baltic eurozone republics such as Latvia and Lithuania, hard-pressed pensioners and workers earning barely 500 a month are at a loss as to why Greece should qualify for more largesse.
Mildas monthly pension is 293 a month , well under half the current level in Greece. When Latvia went through a similar debt crisis in 2009, it imposed swingeing budget cuts and tax increases worth about 15% of GDP over three years. Output fell by a quarter and unemployment soared to more than 20%. The population fell as people left in droves.
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By the second half of 2010, however, the economy had started to grow again, and from 2011 to 2013 Latvia was among the fastest growing countries in the EU. Despite the fact that the currency was not devalued, exports are now at record highs, some 60% above where they were before the crisis.
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We should contribute somewhat, in solidarity, but the Greeks shouldnt be so arrogant about it, Gotautas said. They suffered cuts from a higher level, and these cuts had to be painful. Its hard to help someone when youre not in a good situation yourself, but some solidarity should be maintained by the EU.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/09/poorer-than-greece-the-eu-countries-that-reject-a-new-athens-bailout#comments
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Good read from the smaller Euro-zone members' perspective. Also, some interesting graphs showing Greece's income advantage compared to her Baltic partners, Latvia and Lithuania.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)/.01%
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)That's a GOOD thing, no?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Igel
(35,320 posts)It is proof that austerity isn't the inevitable catastrophe that it's billed to be.
We remember the correct predictions, and take Greece as proof that austerity = disaster.
The incorrect predictions, the counterexamples, the data that falsify our beliefs and the theories we nurture and adore, we simply forget ever happened. That cuts both ways: There are good examples where austerity did work; there are good examples where Keynesian theory flopped miserably. If necessary, we work really, really hard to show that they're not counterexamples at all. We look in the details, finding something that wasn't done perfectly according to some version of "our" theories, and any non-compliance justifies the flop and preservation of our theories. (We don't look at where our theories did work to see if the same non-compliance with theory was irrelevant. The goal of science is to find the data to support your views, right?)
Then, since what we see is all there is to know, and we don't see the incorrect predictions, it means we're always right and they're always wrong. QED.
Greece isn't Latvia. There are differences, some large. That means the details of the solution are going to be different. Perhaps it means that the theory that'll work is different. It's an empirical question, as Chomsky would say when confronted with something that he couldn't deal with.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Austerity is disaster for those who have nothing left to lose but no one cares about them anyway.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)So, the EU did NOT force austerity on them as a result of the crash as it did to Greece. And the 2 countries have NOT been supporting Greece this whole time. Lithuania joined the EU this year and Latvia joined last year.
But the whole premise makes no sense. How do we know if these 2 countries didn't inflate their way out of the crash since they weren't with the EU until recently? And does every country in the EU have to match the lowest pensions and social program funding available to any EU country? And how do we know what percentage of their income went to paying for these social programs? If the Greeks pay more in, they should get more out.
This article sounds like one of those Scott Walker talking points were he wants to take away the union pensions that the union workers have already worked and paid for because some maids who work for the Koch brothers have almost nonexistent pensions. You know, how dare anyone work and pay for a pension that is better than yours.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)on the ground in the countries being reported on:
arūnas Černiauskas in Vilnius and Pauls Raudseps in Riga
As for saying that the feelings and attitudes of the Latvians and Lithuanians are BS, I guess you'll have to take that up with people like Milda here:
Cant they get by on 120 a week? she asks, referring to the latest cash limits on pensioners introduced in Greece. Lifes less expensive down there. Its warmer, they dont have to pay for heating or winter boots, and fruit and vegetables must be cheaper.'
fasttense
(17,301 posts)They did NOT support Greece because they were not members until very recently. Greece has had to deal with EU austerity for 5 years. But the 2 countries being compared to Greece have NOT been dealing with EU austerity. What ever they did to recover from the crash, did NOT involve the EU.
Comparing countries that were Not with the EU then claiming those countries are supporting Greece is dishonest journalism.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Euro-zone membership. Which is what should have happened with Greece, instead of after the fact.
Thanks to accounting slight-of-hand, aided and abetted by Goldman Sachs, Greece was admitted to the euro-zone in 2001, under the fraudulent pretext that their tax code/collection system and pension structure were viable.