Cameron is right about Syria – but the outcome now depends on Russia
Last edited Sat Nov 28, 2015, 02:22 AM - Edit history (1)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/27/david-cameron-syria-russia-hollande-putin** The comments are a must read if you want to deconstruct this article
Found this quote:
Unpleasant and distasteful as it may be, the choice in Syria is between -as the BBC's Bridget Kendall put it - dictators with moustaches and dictators with beards.
Building up a unified European resolve is especially important because no one is under any illusion that the Obama administration wants to embroil itself deeper in the Middle East: America, miles across the Atlantic, simply doesnt feel its own security is on the line. But Europes is. The Middle East is spewing out its violence on to our continent. Germany has announced it will contribute surveillance and refuelling planes over Syria. Eyes are now on Britain.
membership
But what is the strategy? It is clear to all that Isis cannot be defeated with airstrikes alone. Ground forces are needed to rout Isis in Raqqa its self-styled capital of the caliphate, in eastern Syria, and from where the Paris attacks were planned. Ground forces will also be needed for future postwar stabilisation efforts. These ground forces cannot, and should not, be western. That would invite a repetition of the costly mistakes made in Iraq and Afghanistan, where military occupation created a spiral of violence and radicalisation.
So who can be deployed against Isis? David Camerons assertion in the House of Commons that 70,000 moderate Syrian rebels could be counted on caused raised eyebrows. As yet, no other western leader has publicly made that claim. Surely, in the chaos that engulfs Syria, precise figures have to be handled with caution.
But if there is a logic to Camerons assertion then clues to understanding it might be found in recent talks between Hollande and Vladimir Putin. Camerons case for UK airstrikes wasnt just about a national British strategy it was obviously drawn from consultations with western allies. Cameron went to see Hollande in Paris ahead of his statement to the Commons, and ahead of the French presidents diplomatic tour, which included stops in Washington and in Moscow.
Francois Hollande at the Paris attacks memorial
The statements that came out of those meetings didnt provide all the answers, but they made one thing clear: how Russia acts now will decide whether an anti-Isis strategy has any chance of success in Syria. If Russia can be made to turn the guns and missiles of its fighter planes against Isis and only Isis an important step forward will have been taken.
Heres the logic: what Cameron calls moderate Syrian opposition forces are anti-Assad rebels who currently spend most of their energy and resources resisting the onslaught of Syrian government troops who, since September, have benefitted from Russian close air support. If those rebels can be freed from having to fight on that front (located in the west of Syria), they would become available to move against Isis (mostly in the east).
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)With the core of a stable government, they run it like hte Free French in WWII.
flamingdem
(39,333 posts)The point is being made that Putin doesn't use spin. He's all in with Assad, it may not be negotiable. Allies and all. In that case Cameron is taking bs. He seems to be since we've been there before trying to get the Syrian "opposition" to do the West's bidding. I thought I'd read that Putin is coming around but apparently he didn't offer anything much to Hollande.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Syria must have a stable government or this will not work. Failed states breed chaos.
flamingdem
(39,333 posts)I'm speculating that the only thing Putin might give on is an Assad puppet ruler. But why risk letting the West have any say? He's the one clearing out Isis and the Assad opposition by using air plus Syrian troops, the facts are in the comments much more than the article.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)It has become the classic "leftwing gatekeeper", trying to herd its readership into accepting the mainstream narrative.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)He should, however, remember what happened in Afghanistan, the grave of empires.
ISIS can not be cleared out with an air campaign. The real question is whether Assad's military with Hezbollah and Iran are willing to do the bleeding on the ground. I suspect when Assad and Hezbollah are bogged down, Russia will bring in troops. He will face the same problem that happens in all these places. To win, Russia must defeat the enemy. For the enemy to win, all they need to do is refuse to lose.
flamingdem
(39,333 posts)Yesterday David Cameron told Parliament that there are about 70,000 Syrian opposition fighters on the ground who do not belong to extremist groups who could help fight Islamic State.
The Prime Ministers number was the result of an internal assessment made by the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC), backed up by serving British diplomats overseas whose jobs focus on the Syrian opposition. Such a large number struck many as political exaggeration. The chairman of the Defence Committee, Julian Lewis, said he was extremely surprised. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn may issue a formal demand for clarification. So do these fighters exist and who are they?
Of course, the debate primarily centres around the issue of what it means to be a moderate armed opposition group in Syria. Notwithstanding the storm surrounding this mornings statement, this question has become particularly pertinent in recent days, as international diplomats discuss who should and should not be involved in a future Syrian peace process.
As diplomatic efforts for Syria gain pace and as Saudi Arabia prepares to host a major conference bringing together 60-80 representatives of a broad spectrum opposition, the definition of moderate has been shifting. The most effective definition now must be based upon a combined assessment of (a) what groups are acknowledged as being opposed to ISIL and (b) what groups our governments want, or need to be involved in a political process.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)My take is that he (Putin) really believes that Assad is needed to keep Syria together until ISIS is under control.
That was before recent events though.