Many of us are on DU. Many of us are working through our churches to proliferate more liberal policies.

We are shouted down by the fringe Christians. When we come to DU, if we dare to proclaim our faith or defend ourselves, we are attacked by the atheists here. Sometimes I speak up. Mostly, I don't bother.

but DU can be more than a challenge.

Many of us would like to speak up and against these fringe (and do), but are at the same time prepared to be called morons who believe in 'mythical sky creatures', so sometimes its just better to nuke the thread into the trashcan and let people sing to the choir about how "christians are all the same", rinse and repeat.

There are a few in some of the smaller religion forums.

There are many, many more out there, but they tend to work quietly and are outshouted by the megaphones on the religious right.

As an outsider, I may be speaking out of turn -- but there's a kind of co-dependence going on that's apparent even in the article quoted in the OP, an insistence on engaging and working out problems within the family that I don't think has served Christians in general well.

In the old days, many of the fringe Christians would have been routinely condemned as heretics. The Ayn Randists trying to turn Christianity into a religion of selfishness. The left-behinders who think they can force Armageddon by hustling all the Jews off to Israel or whatever else is next on their prophecy checklist. The deviant Catholics who believe that "wealth creators" are uniquely made in the image of God.

I understand that progressive Christians are heavy on tolerance. I understand that the history of schisms and religious wars within Christianity may give pause to anybody who fears it could happen again. And I also understand that progressive Christians may fear that if they start describing the reactionaries as not real Christians, it will bounce back at them ten times harder.

But operating from a position of weakness is never a winning strategy in the long run. And it would be a terrible thing if the "normal Christians" surrendered without firing a shot out of fear of rocking the boat.

at all' as her reason others should not see her as science hating and anti gay and whatnot. Well. That's odd to me. Why claim a religion that teaches and promotes a lot of crap you think is awful? And how can one then expect others to not assume you adhere to the religion you claim? Those teachings she so lighting refuses to follow are imposed on others, with her money. She helped make Prop 8. And she did so for a religion she does not care to practice.
I found this frightening.

I know nothing about the author. What was her involvement in the Prop 8 vote?

There is the menu of all things Christian, the good deeds, the scourges, the miracles, the death cult. But people pick where they want it to go. It's a build-it deal, and there are Lego blocks. If you're creative enough, you can start your own cult.

It's a mean universe, and people are small and vulnerable. It's good to have the lord of the universe working for you.

--imm

There are many, many people of faith whose lives grace the lives of those around them. You do them an unwarranted disservice to paint them with the same broad brush with which you condemn those whose "faith" is more marketing device than moral guide.

Your faith in your own rightness can be every bit as hurtful as false faith. You owe an apology.

And I am for anybody else who does good too. There are a pile of virtues that a person of faith can envelop in their quest for salvation. Those virtues are not limited to the religious, as others will do service for their own reasons.

Some things that people do for religion are not so virtuous. The faith that drives it is the same. The results can be disastrous.

I don't think of reasoned points of view that are subject to review as righteous. YRMV Of the three, I would cop to a bit of unkind.


--imm

doing what we were put here to do:

help in times of disasters,
feed the hungry, sit with the grieving,
visit the hopeless and imprisoned,
to work for equal rights for all,
and attempt to offer love to the loveless.

Most of us who try to follow Jesus' teachings
aren't interested the spotlight, nor in politics,
unless its working for justice.

We don't blow our horns, nor are we real obvious
about our 'politics' here at DU because...
well, read some of the responses.

Sad, but despite our efforts, we are lumped in with the
narrow bigots who claim to be !*CHRISTIANS*!...

and a accused of many bizarre things.
That's the ways its been for the last 2,000 years.

We are also accused of making things up,
but I don't know what's so controversial about
justice, love and taking care of others.

I don't know about you, but I don't take the scripture
literally, nor do I believe in the devil.
If you choose to, that's up to you.

Too often scripture is misquoted and badly misinterpreted,
so don't ask me to explain how and why some fundie
thinks the way they do. I can read Greek and Hebrew
so I know better than to twist the ancient writings around.

I'm sure I'm gonna get jumped on by some of my
liberal, broadminded, open DU colleagues,
who apparently know more than I do...
that's their choice.

It's meaningless as a label because the Bible is a mess of censorship, rewriting, copying, third-hand stories, not to mention that there is no evidence that Jesus existed outside of the Bible. Read about the Council of Nicaea and how Emperor Constantine used it to unify his empire and control people.

Lots of other gods were born of a virgin on December 25: Mithra, Osiris, Apollo and many others. There is nothing original in Christianity; it is a syncretic religion.

The festivals in the Christian religion are pagan festivals. Easter is a spring pagan fertility ritual about the Goddess Ostara. Christmas is the pagan evergreen tree festival celebrating the return of the sun going north from its southernmost point three days after the solstice. It's also a human need to have fires and light in the darkest part of the year. It's called seasonal affective disorder now--not getting enough light to feel healthy.

Jesus said lots of hateful and cruel stuff in the NT. He said he would condemn people to hell that didn't like his preaching. He said "I come not in peace but with a sword." To divide families. There are hundreds of examples of cruel stuff he said.

The label Christian is like the No True Scotsman fallacy. There is no such thing as a true christian. You could endorse mass murder, killing of whole villages and innocent babies, and say you are following the teachings of Jesus.

There are large chunks of the NT that should be ignored completely.

Don't get me started on how original sin is a lie based on a fairy tale and how it destroys people mentally and emotionally. They think they are worthless, and have such low self esteem that they will sit in a pew and let a preacher tell them how horrible and sinful they are. That is about as far from psychological health as you can get.