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hue

(4,949 posts)
Tue May 22, 2012, 05:38 PM May 2012

The Wisconsin Lie Exposed - Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/

Pulitzer Prize winning tax reporter, David Cay Johnston, has written a brilliant piece for tax.com exposing the truth about who really pays for the pension and benefits for public employees in Wisconsin.

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

Via tax.com
How can this be possible?
Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future.

Many of us are familiar with the concept of deferred compensation from reading about the latest multi-million dollar deal with some professional athlete. As a means of allowing their ball club to have enough money to operate, lowering their own tax obligations and for other benefits, ball players often defer payment of money they are to be paid to a later date. In the meantime, that money is invested for the ball player’s benefit and then paid over at the time and in the manner agreed to in the contract between the parties.
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The Wisconsin Lie Exposed - Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions (Original Post) hue May 2012 OP
Thank you for posting this Samantha May 2012 #1
I do not know how Wisconsin pensions are structured exboyfil May 2012 #2
The fallacy is in the grammar. Igel May 2012 #3
The time frame is it never has and it is not in the present tense! hue May 2012 #4

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)
2. I do not know how Wisconsin pensions are structured
Tue May 22, 2012, 06:10 PM
May 2012

but when I looked at California pensions it turns out that they withhold about what would have been withheld under Social Security for the employee portion. The state on the other hand contributes like 2% (instead of the 6.5% they would have had to) under Social Security. The benefits for the California state workers are greater than they would have been under Social Security, and the state of California gets to save a huge amount of dollars from not having to contribute to Social Security.

This comes about because the state worker's compensation is beter on average than the cross section of the population contributing to Social Security.

If anybody is a winner in California it is the state. While the pension is better than Social Security, it is not that much better.

I wonder if it is the same in Wisconsin?

My numbers may be off some because I looked at this awhile ago.

Igel

(35,359 posts)
3. The fallacy is in the grammar.
Wed May 23, 2012, 10:05 PM
May 2012

I haven't looked at this one, but typically there's a problem with the tenses and aspect.

The first thing the article had better do is specify the time frame. Is it's point that this month no public money goes to the pension funds? Or is its point that there's no obligation currently likely to result from the current promises that public money will ever have to cover, given no changes to contribution totals by those invested in the pension program.

We're taught that the simple present tense means the present. The simple present tense in English can mean that something is happening currently (in the right syntactic context) but more often means something is habitual or durative. "The sun rises in the East" is a statement of repeated fact. "I get up every morning at 5:15 am" is true even though it's 20 minutes from my bedtime--and only true for 5 of the next 9 days. It's not semantically "present tense" in any straightforward meaning of the phrase, apart from a few simple stative verbs.

So "no public money funds public worker pensions" can be true but how true and true for how long? For a number of cities and states it's true but there are large commitments in the pension plans that there's no way for those invested in the pension plans to fund. The ambiguity of the morphological simple present obscures a future fact, and the simple-mindedness of public school grammatical education enables this ambiguity to go unnoticed by erstwhile native speakers of the language (who lack all grammatical introspection, it seems).

Since there's no way to present an argument without first agreeing on the definitions of the relevant terms, and since in this case the grammatical form's meaning crucially needs defining, I assume that's the first thing that the article does.

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