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midnight

(26,624 posts)
Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:44 PM Jul 2012

Courts have found that incarcerating people for debts they couldn’t afford to pay violates the 14th

Across the country, cash-strapped cities and counties are throwing poor defendants in jail for failing to pay legal debts that they can never hope to manage. On Monday, the New York Times told the story of Gina Ray, whose $179 speeding ticket mushroomed into $3,170 in fines and fees and 40 days in jail when she couldn’t afford to pay it. Gina is one of many swept up in America’s new debtors’ prisons, a growing problem nationwide.
(Image: ACLU)

Also this week, the ABA Journal told the story of the Philadelphia courts’ aggressive efforts to collect unpaid fines and fees, many of which are decades old. Ameen Muqtadir was billed nearly $41,000 for two failures to appear in court dating back to 1991 and 1997—even though he’d been incarcerated at the time of each hearing. Meanwhile, Hakim Waliyyudin spent 12 days in jail while he raised the money to post a $1,000 bond with the court; after the criminal charges against him were dismissed, the court clerk told him that he owed another $9,000 plus $1,500 in collection fees because of a missed court date. Although a free attorney from Community Legal Services ultimately convinced the court to waive the judgment and collection charges against Hakim, many other indigent defendants around the country face further jail time when they cannot pay court-ordered fines and fees.

As the ACLU emphasized in its October 2010 report, In for a Penny: The Rise of America’s New Debtors’ Prisons, jailing people for unpaid court debts imposes devastating human costs on men and women whose only remaining crime is that they are poor. Upon release, they face the daunting prospect of having to rebuild their lives yet again, while their substantial legal debts pose a significant, and at times insurmountable, barrier as they attempt to re-enter society. They see their incomes fall, their credit ratings worsen, their prospects for housing and employment dim, and their chances of ending up back in jail or prison increase. Many must make hard choices each month as they attempt to balance their needs and those of their families with their legal financial obligations. They also remain tethered to the criminal justice system—sometimes decades after they complete their sentences—and live under constant threat of being sent back to jail or prison, solely because they cannot pay what has become an unmanageable legal debt.

Aggressive collection of legal financial obligations creates a two-tiered system of justice in which the poorest defendants are punished more harshly than those with means. Although courts attempt to collect legal financial obligations from indigent and affluent defendants alike, those who can afford to pay their legal debts avoid jail, complete their sentences, and move on with their lives. Those unable to pay end up incarcerated or under continued court supervision. Perversely, they also often end up paying much more in fines and fees than defendants who can pay their legal financial obligations. Additionally, the imposition of legal financial obligations disproportionately affects racial and ethnic minorities, who are disproportionately represented among the prisoner population.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/07/05-3

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
2. Gina Ray's story is one of organized ursury by unregulated collectors. However,...
Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:51 PM
Jul 2012

...I think it can be argued that, under certain circumstances, imprisonment for debts might be justified.

I'm thinking about deadbeat parents and people who run from civil fines.

I realize that this story is about the two-tiers, but do think the discussion around when, if ever, imprisonment is justified is discussion-worthy.

SoutherDem

(2,307 posts)
3. If we would jail CEOs and Executives who rip people off I might agree
Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:08 PM
Jul 2012

But being $3000, most of which are fees and interest, can get you jail time while $3B nothing I can't agree.

Out bankruptcy courts will allow corporations to walk away from millions but a regular person have many restrictions.

As to deadbeat parents, they could be jailed for other crimes than debt.

I feel it would be best to keep the debtors jail locked in history never to return.

midnight

(26,624 posts)
4. It is customary to garnish dead beat parents checks rather than imprison them to prevent job loss..
Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:13 PM
Jul 2012
 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
5. That might work for honest deadbeats who have a job...
Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:24 PM
Jul 2012

What about wealthy ones who legally shelter their wealth and then claim inability to pay?

Or might there be people who have civil judgements but claim to have no funds?

I'm not defending anyone, just wondering aloud if there aren't situations of indebtedness that warrant prison.

Maybe Bernie Maddof.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
10. sorry, but parents are often imprisoned for back support even if they are ...
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 02:34 AM
Jul 2012

...unemployed or poorly employed in this economy, and unable to pay off the arrears.

It's a racket, centered in family courts. The courts make money in fines from the parent owing money, law enforcement makes money, ancillary professions make money, taxpayers pay for the incarceration.

benld74

(9,904 posts)
6. Effin stoopid - IF someone owes $$, being behind bars prevents payments,,,,
Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:40 PM
Jul 2012

and COSTS the cities even more $$

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
8. I think they intend to use it to scare everyone that isn't behind bars.
Sat Jul 7, 2012, 11:52 PM
Jul 2012

The loansharks don't have to break everyone's legs. They just break a few and everyone else gets the message. And presumably they'd get either kickbacks from the for-profit prison or the person would be forced to work and they'd take the money.

So it's debtor's prison and a really vile form of intimidation at the same time.

ashling

(25,771 posts)
9. This article is misleading or perhaps just bad journalism
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 01:12 AM
Jul 2012

The OP is not really at fault, though nothing in the 4 paragraphs clipped from the article even alludes to the subject line. So I figured that there must be a lot more in the article that the OP was unable to post.

There was not.

What courts? From the headline I got the impression that I was going to read something about how this situation is being dealt with properly in the courts for a change.... or at least a split in the courts. Is this going to SCOTUS? How? When? What are the prospects?

midnight

(26,624 posts)
11. Did you open the link?
Mon Jul 9, 2012, 12:05 AM
Jul 2012

"Courts have found that incarcerating people for debts they couldn’t afford to pay violates the 14th Amendment. Further, it creates hardships for men and women who already struggle with re-entering society after being released from prison or jail, and wastes resources in an often fruitless effort to extract payments. In an age when more Americans are deprived of their liberty than ever before, unnecessarily and unfairly, we should be shutting down debtors’ prisons, not creating more of them"

ashling

(25,771 posts)
12. That is just what I'm talking about
Mon Jul 9, 2012, 01:16 AM
Jul 2012

The article at the link was the 4 paragraphs in the post and this.

What courts? State or Federal? What circuit(s)? Is this going to SCOTUS? When?

The article says nothing about that.

I just admonished a student for using the ad populem argument, "Lots of people think..." This is not quite as bad - after all we would tend to assume that "some courts" have some credibility as opposed to "Lots of people" Still, if ther are "some courts," they should be worth naming.

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
13. Pretty much everything that is wrong in this country comes down to GREED
Mon Jul 9, 2012, 08:04 AM
Jul 2012

health insurance instead of healthcare.

CEO pay 1,000 times the common worker.

For profit prisons. For profit justice. For profit congress and soon a for profit president if we don't stop that fucker.

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