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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Thu Aug 15, 2013, 07:12 AM Aug 2013

Why I Find It Hard to be Friends With White People

http://www.alternet.org/why-i-find-it-hard-be-friends-white-people



A recent Reuters/Ipsos poll, which found that 40 percent of white people and 25 percent of nonwhite people have no friends of the opposite race, caused me to reflect deeply on the friendship segregation that has characterized my own life.

These days most of my close friends are black. No. Let me be honest. All my close friends are black. One of my BFFs likes to joke that all of my white friends were grandfathered in before 1998, the year I graduated high school.

In third grade, during the Presidential election of 1988, my grandmother asked me whom I was voting for. To her utter dismay, I proudly announced “Bush!” unsuspectingly mimicking the overwhelming choice that my young classmates had made during the class “election.” She looked at me, shook her head forcefully and said, “Naw, Girl! Dukakis!” It would be many years before I understood that the difference in political orientations was just one of the many substantive differences between me and my classmates.

I had only begun to have white friends the year prior when I found myself newly “tracked” into the higher-achieving second grade class based on superior reading ability. Scattered into a predominantly white classroom among only a handful of black students left me desperately wanting to culturally fit in and sound like my peers, especially since the vast majority of black children I knew stayed concentrated in the “B” and “C” tracks. My awkward attempts to fit in resulted in me being teased mercilessly by my black peers, who from then on through the better part of high school both accused and found me guilty of “talking too proper,” “acting white” and, perhaps most egregious of all, “thinking I was white.”

I was grateful for the friendship of a white girl in my class, Amanda. I’m not sure why we were drawn to each other, but more and more, we became each other’s primary playmates during recess. By fourth grade, Amanda and I were joined at the hip, so much so that our teacher, a Black lady named Mrs. Gaulden, still my all-time favorite teacher, called us Ebony and Ivory after the famous song. Amanda directed the classroom production of “Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Bus Boycott,” starring yours truly as Rosa Parks.
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Why I Find It Hard to be Friends With White People (Original Post) xchrom Aug 2013 OP
Growing up we moved about every 3 months newfie11 Aug 2013 #1
Dance and be friends with everyone. dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #2
Those numbers are astonishing! MuseRider Aug 2013 #3
There's a school of thought that this is a good thing. Igel Aug 2013 #4
It can be so complex MuseRider Aug 2013 #5
I find it a little sad. Behind the Aegis Aug 2013 #6
i very much prefer the company of gay men. xchrom Aug 2013 #7
I am cool with most straight women. Behind the Aegis Aug 2013 #8
Did you grow up there? BainsBane Aug 2013 #9
No. I grew up all over the South for the most part. Behind the Aegis Aug 2013 #10
How did you decide to live in rural Oklahoma BainsBane Aug 2013 #11
I don't live in rural OK, just a small town. Behind the Aegis Aug 2013 #12
+1 Blue_Tires Aug 2013 #13

newfie11

(8,159 posts)
1. Growing up we moved about every 3 months
Thu Aug 15, 2013, 07:29 AM
Aug 2013

I am now 66 years old. Back when I was a young person people didn't move much.

I went to school many times being the only white kid in the class. My class was Latinos or Native Americans. I loved it. What a great opportunity to learn about others, although I didn't know that at the time.

Many years later when living in LA (during the Watts riots)
I was asked to be a bridesmaid at an all black wedding in Watts.
I have never need so honored and you bet I did.

The last 10 years of my work was on Reservations in SD. I loved my friends there. The Lakota have problems but most of the problems are caused by what whites did to them.

People need to know others out of their circle! Wake up, there is a wealth of knowledge and fun knowing other cultures.
You will find others are not the boogeyman you may think they are.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
2. Dance and be friends with everyone.
Thu Aug 15, 2013, 07:32 AM
Aug 2013

Don't matter whether someone is black , white, Jewish , Muslim .................. all just friends.

I remember Frankie saying "when you dance you're closer to someone you may never have met before for 3 minutes or so than most married couples are"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Manning

MuseRider

(34,111 posts)
3. Those numbers are astonishing!
Thu Aug 15, 2013, 08:50 AM
Aug 2013

I know tons of people who are different than I am in many ways, know a lot of them quite well and would consider them good friends. I lived in a small city in Kansas until I moved to a tiny spot. It would seem the opportunity would be less where I am but perhaps not?

Is it because people segregate themselves? Hard to understand that.

Igel

(35,320 posts)
4. There's a school of thought that this is a good thing.
Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:43 AM
Aug 2013

Unfortunately, that school of thought usually conflates skin color and culture.

White racists do this routinely. If you're black you have to be African-American and like "black culture". If you step outside of your well-defined role then you're "not like other blacks" or you're somehow special. Such comments are often taken as racist--more often than not they're reasonable stereotypes that don't make good allowance for individual differences--and this has the effect of driving people into skin-color-based groups.

Groups tend to assimilate people to their culture; if you want to be part of a group you value their culture and tend to adopt it. "Culture" is the set of attitudes and assumptions that determine how you get along with others. It's how loudly you talk, how close you stand, when you shake hands, look another in the eye; it sets ground rules for when it's okay to omit facts or shade the truth, or when you pile on the facts and speak bluntly. It includes when it's okay to emote and when you need to be rational, and what "rational" means. Etc. Most of the other visible, obvious things--clothing, hairstyle, food, they're secondary.

I've run into more than a few blacks who have exactly the same view. If a person with dark brown skin whose genes didn't leave Africa until the 1700s (give or take a few decades) then it's assumed that skin hue dictates thinking. You're ostracized and condemned because of the mismatch between your culture and the culture of the group composed of lots of other African-Americans. The pull to assimilate is strong; and the approval of endorsement of is at least as strong.

Take it one step further and you get the comments I heard among undergrads when I was in grad school. "Why are you learning German. You're Korean, you should be learning your own language, or at least an Asian language." "They don't have rice for breakfast at this retreat. I miss rice. What, you don't have rice for breakfast? And you're Asian?" Or even accusing people of betraying "their" culture. The response--"Korean isn't my language, I was born here"; "I like pancakes"; or "What do you mean 'my culture'?--my mother was born here and so was I"--always was met with a shocked and condescending gaze. Skin color determines culture. For the non-racist as well as for the raging racist.

With that kind of pressure, it's really hard for kids to avoid being assimilated to a group, and the background assumption gets really well reinforced. Suddenly kids stop seeing role models in other humans, but only in those human-like-them. They start assuming that humans-not-like-them are outsiders. And you can never trust outsiders. They all lack some in-group trait that is essential for being truly human. (In my neighborhood, the in-group trait is living a substantial portion of your waking hours outside, where you can be seen and possibly approached. My response: It's frigging 98 degrees F and 80% humidity outside, and I'm just not that into BBQ or playing loud music.)

One student last year went from B+/A- to D-. It happened over orientation weekend at a HBCU. A week later she was reaching out for new friends; one of her former best friends she referred to as an "oreo", and said that her former good friends never really understood her--not like her future roommate and best friend, whom she'd just met. She'd found "her" culture, even if it took her months at age 18 to fully learn it and reinterpret all kinds of things as "racist". Her new culture, it seemed, required bringing her GPA down to her group's average. And being vaguely sexist--black guys with white girlfriends were much less offensive than black girls with white boyfriends. Mirror image most white attitudes I've run across. Gotta protect them wimmenfolk.

MuseRider

(34,111 posts)
5. It can be so complex
Thu Aug 15, 2013, 03:55 PM
Aug 2013

for kids. For adults too I suspect.

You have experienced this where as a white female I have experienced sexism but not racism.

I guess it has always puzzled me why we have to put people in groups, or feel we need to be a part of a certain group.

Your post is very informative and I will read it later when I have actual time to reflect on it instead of just reading through it. Thank you.

Behind the Aegis

(53,959 posts)
6. I find it a little sad.
Thu Aug 15, 2013, 04:02 PM
Aug 2013

I have all kinds of friends. One of my best friends is African-American and her daughters call me and my partner, "uncle." Though, I can say I understand the perspective of the AA person to some extent. Being gay, I have a difficult time with friendships with non-gay men. I guess I should be perfectly honest, I am afraid of them. Though, I'd like to think there are some straight men here with whom I feel I could be friends with IRL, because I consider them friends here. So, maybe I am changing. Minorities rarely have the opportunity to just "hang with their own," but when we get the opportunity, it is liberating.

Behind the Aegis

(53,959 posts)
8. I am cool with most straight women.
Thu Aug 15, 2013, 04:08 PM
Aug 2013

But, I sadly agree, I too have issues of trust with straight men. I am kind of back and forth on the company of gay men, sometimes yes, sometimes no. Though living in small town Oklahoma, I would really like to have some gay male friends.

Behind the Aegis

(53,959 posts)
10. No. I grew up all over the South for the most part.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 05:25 AM
Aug 2013

I am an Army brat. I have lived in 12 states and 21 cities.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
11. How did you decide to live in rural Oklahoma
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 05:27 AM
Aug 2013

Sorry if I'm being nosy. Feel free to tell me to mind my own business.

Behind the Aegis

(53,959 posts)
12. I don't live in rural OK, just a small town.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 05:47 AM
Aug 2013

My partner's job brought him back here. And, one mistake, it isn't 21 cities I lived in, but 18. It isn't a bad place, just not very "gay."

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