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bananas

(27,509 posts)
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 08:28 AM Oct 2013

Scientists Say 'No Consensus on GMO Food Safety'

http://ecowatch.com/2013/10/21/scientists-say-no-consensus-on-gmo-food-safety/

Scientists Say ‘No Consensus on GMO Food Safety’

Kaye Spector |October 21, 2013

An international group of more than 90 scientists, academics and physicians released a statement today saying there is no scientific consensus on the safety of genetically modified (GM) foods and crops.

The statement was issued in response to recent claims from the GM industry and some scientists, journalists and commentators that there is a “scientific consensus” that genetically modified organisms (GMO) were generally found safe for human and animal consumption. The statement calls these claims misleading and says, “This claimed consensus on GMO safety does not exist.”

<snip>

Sigers of the statement include prominent and respected scientists, including Dr. Hans Herren, a former winner of the World Food Prize and this year’s Alternative Nobel Prize laureate, and Dr. Pushpa Bhargava, known as the father of modern biotechnology in India.

Signers of the statement are calling for the compliance to the precautionary approach to GM crops and foods internationally agreed upon in the Cartagena Protocol on Biosafety and UN’s Codex Alimentarius.

ENSSER released the statement the week after the World Food Prize was awarded to two executives of the GM seed giants Monsanto and Syngenta, provoking outrage worldwide.

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Scientists Say 'No Consensus on GMO Food Safety' (Original Post) bananas Oct 2013 OP
Interesting get the red out Oct 2013 #1
What risk(s) do some see in eating GM foods? KurtNYC Oct 2013 #2
Studies done in Europe show the poison in GM crops starts showing up in blood loudsue Oct 2013 #6
this is utter rubbish.... mike_c Oct 2013 #7
That doesn't stop the fear-mongers! HuckleB Oct 2013 #14
Your name says it all. loudsue Oct 2013 #15
Your response says it all. HuckleB Oct 2013 #16
Go back to your masters. loudsue Oct 2013 #17
I'm sorry that you prefer fiction to reality. HuckleB Oct 2013 #18
You guys make me sick. n/t loudsue Oct 2013 #19
Actually, you make yourself sick. HuckleB Oct 2013 #20
Not fair making posts you know I am unable to reply to in a forum I'm unfairly blocked from. proverbialwisdom Jan 2014 #29
You should have been blocked in that forum long ago. HuckleB Jan 2014 #30
study: 93% of blood samples from pregnant women...had traces of chemicals secreted by GM plants. Bill USA Jan 2014 #31
what is a "GM toxin?" mike_c Jan 2014 #32
I guess you didn't think of looking for the abstract of the study itself. I did..... Bill USA Jan 2014 #33
with all due respect, glyphosate is not expressed in any GMOs that I'm aware of.... mike_c Jan 2014 #34
I find only the Séralini studies and those look to be a mess. KurtNYC Oct 2013 #8
I have the study, carla Oct 2013 #10
it's rubbish-- the design has been thoroughly discredited.... mike_c Oct 2013 #22
Indeed. And not only that... HuckleB Oct 2013 #25
+1 HuckleB Oct 2013 #12
Can you link us to the large-scale studies that support your theories? HuckleB Oct 2013 #13
Again: Can you link us to the large-scale studies that support your theories? HuckleB Oct 2013 #21
Who paid for this study? ND newfie11 Oct 2013 #3
I think we need more research and debate agent46 Oct 2013 #4
If there is nothing wrong with GMOs, why did Monsanto push through the Monsanto Protection Act, djean111 Oct 2013 #5
That law was just eliminated KurtNYC Oct 2013 #9
If nothing else, the temporary agreement to reopen the government loudsue Oct 2013 #11
Glad to hear that! nt bananas Oct 2013 #24
The pro-GM scientists are suspect at best Doctor_J Oct 2013 #23
Bottom line- ruffburr Oct 2013 #26
A + n/t peace13 Oct 2013 #27
K&R proverbialwisdom Oct 2013 #28

get the red out

(13,466 posts)
1. Interesting
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 08:29 AM
Oct 2013

I really hope more research is done on this. I admit to eating them, hard to afford to buy all food GM free. People do deserve as much research as possible when changes are made to the food supply, IMO.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
2. What risk(s) do some see in eating GM foods?
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 08:47 AM
Oct 2013

Basically everything sold in the US that contains corn, soy or canola is GM. There are signs of a pullback from GM corn by farmers recently as GM yields are not as high as they need to be to pay the extra costs for the seeds and sprays. There is an increase in the use of no-till farming for corn but I am not sure that that means they plant non-GM seed, only that they leave the roots of cover crops in the soil and apply little to no herbicide. I think many farmers' choices are driven mainly by: cost, yield and sticking to what they have expertise in. So no-till is new to many of them but anecdotally some are driven by the lower cost and less labor toward no-till.

loudsue

(14,087 posts)
6. Studies done in Europe show the poison in GM crops starts showing up in blood
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 10:00 AM
Oct 2013

after (if I remember correctly) 4 months. And it is cumulative. GM crops manufacture their own pesticides and/or herbicides, all of which poison people, water, soil, critters....but it's less work for the farmers since they don't have to spray their crops with topical poisons.

It's taking mother nature and turning her into a Medusa.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
16. Your response says it all.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:03 AM
Oct 2013

You push baseless fear for no good reason. You are no different than the climate change deniers.

PS: The Scientific Debate About GM Foods Is Over: They're Safe

http://www.psmag.com/health/scientific-debate-gm-foods-theyre-safe-66711/

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
18. I'm sorry that you prefer fiction to reality.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:12 AM
Oct 2013

And here I thought those folks were all in the Bush administration. Hmmmmmm.

When Journalists Say Really Stupid Stuff About GMOs
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/collideascape/2013/06/03/when-journalists-say-really-stupid-stuff-about-gmos/

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
20. Actually, you make yourself sick.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:14 AM
Oct 2013

Preconceptions have a way of doing that.


Massive Review Reveals Consensus on GMO Safety
http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2013/10/massive-review-reveals-consensus-on-gmo-safety.html

Climate Change is horrible. Anti-vaccine nonsense is despicable. Anti-GMO propaganda is no different than those.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
29. Not fair making posts you know I am unable to reply to in a forum I'm unfairly blocked from.
Thu Jan 16, 2014, 12:36 AM
Jan 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12312207

HuckleB: Michael Pollan as GMO ‘denialist’ dupes credulous New York Times


FYI.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
30. You should have been blocked in that forum long ago.
Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:36 PM
Jan 2014

Why were you responding to posts after months, in the first place.

That forum is about science. You don't care about science. End of discussion.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
31. study: 93% of blood samples from pregnant women...had traces of chemicals secreted by GM plants.
Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:14 PM
Jan 2014
GM food toxins found in the blood of 93% of unborn babies

(actually, the article says the chemicals were found in the blood of pregnant women and in their umbilical cords._Bill USA)
- (emphases my own_Bill USA)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1388888/GM-food-toxins-blood-93-unborn-babies.html


Toxins implanted into GM food crops to kill pests are reaching the bloodstreams of women and unborn babies, alarming research has revealed.

A landmark study found 93 per cent of blood samples taken from pregnant women and 80 per cent from umbilical cords tested positive for traces of the chemicals.

~~
~~

Most of the global research which has been used to demonstrate the safety of GM crops has been funded by the industry itself.

The new study was carried out by independent doctors at the Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, at the University of Sherbrooke Hospital Centre in Quebec, Canada.
(more)


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1388888/GM-food-toxins-blood-93-unborn-babies.html#ixzz2qar4HsE7
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


... now, this is just one study. you need more than one study to draw conclusions but I think it's enough to warrant further investigation.


mike_c

(36,281 posts)
32. what is a "GM toxin?"
Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:02 PM
Jan 2014

I can only presume that you're talking about Bt toxin, which is the "GM toxin" of choice for pest protection. Are you also aware that Bt has absolutely ZERO non-target toxicity, i.e. it is safe and certified for organic crops? In other words, it's only a "toxin" if you're a pest insect. It also occurs widely in nature-- it's produced naturally by Bacillus species living in soil.

Yup, I just checked your citation, and it does indeed refer to Bt. If you eat 100% organic produce, you'll still be eating Bt toxin. But the good news is that its actual non-toxicity in vertebrates is EXTREMELY well established. The newspaper report you linked is just more fearmongering rubbish by some journalist who made exactly the same mistake you made-- forgetting that something is only a "toxin" if it's toxic to the consumer. Bt is not toxic to vertebrates. Not even a little bit.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
33. I guess you didn't think of looking for the abstract of the study itself. I did.....
Thu Jan 16, 2014, 07:18 PM
Jan 2014
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21338670
The aim of this study was to evaluate the correlation between maternal and fetal exposure, and to determine exposure levels of GLYP and its metabolite [font color="red"]aminomethyl phosphoric acid (AMPA)[/font], GLUF and its metabolite 3-methylphosphinicopropionic acid (3-MPPA) and Cry1Ab protein (a Bt toxin) in Eastern Townships of Quebec, Canada.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aminomethylphosphonic_acid
[font color="red"]Aminomethylphosphonic acid (AMPA)[/font] is a weak organic acid with a phosphonic acid group. It is one of the primary degradation products of the herbicide [font color="purple"]glyphosate[/font].




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate

[font color="purple"]Glyphosate[/font] has a United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Toxicity Class of III (on a I to IV scale, where IV is least dangerous) for oral and inhalation exposure.[19] Thus, as with other herbicides, the EPA requires that products containing glyphosate carry a label that warns against oral intake, mandates the use of protective clothing, and instructs users not to re-enter treated fields for at least 4 hours.[19][47] Glyphosate does not bioaccumulate in animals; it is excreted in urine and faeces.[19] It breaks down variably quickly depending on the particular environment. Health, environmental and food chain effects from alteration of gut flora by wide use of glyphosate are largely unexplored.[48][49][50]

It does say Glyphosate does not "bioaccumulate in animals".. but it also says that "Health, environmental and food chain effects from alteration of gut flora by wide use of glyphosate are largely unexplored". That is what concerns me - It seems to me there has been not very much investigation of long term effects of eating GMOs.

I didn't look up 3-methylphosphinicopropionic acid.

I would think a more informative approach you might have taken would have been to refer to studies investigating the long term effects of ingesting GMOs.

Does eating GMOs make one a bit too prone to being snarky?... I wonder?

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
34. with all due respect, glyphosate is not expressed in any GMOs that I'm aware of....
Thu Jan 16, 2014, 09:16 PM
Jan 2014

Glyphosate, a herbicide sold by Monsanto as Roundup, is NOT engineered into crop plants. It is applied during cultivation (which is why the authors referred to it as "GMO associated&quot . What is engineered is glyphosate resistance so that herbicide can be applied for weed control without killing the crop. Serum glyphosate is the result of improper rinsing and other forms of simple mechanical contamination, not genetic engineering.

The Cry1ab protein is Bt, as you noted, and it IS engineered for expression in transgenic crops. However, as noted earlier, it is entirely nontoxic except to target organisms. It is safe and certified for organic produce.

While glyphosate exposure is not a good thing at all, it's important to note that you will NEVER accumulate glyphosate or its metabolites from transgenic crops themselves, because there aren't any that express the stuff. If they did, they'd die. The problem is bad weed management methods and post-harvest hygene, not GMOs.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
8. I find only the Séralini studies and those look to be a mess.
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 10:55 AM
Oct 2013

I am open to look at any evidence but I have done biodynamic farming and have a fair understanding of the ecology of farming. Pine trees lay down a thick mulch of their own needles, raise the acid levels and then very little can grow beneath them. I would not say that pine trees manufacture herbicide but they have the same effect.

A true herbicide, aka defoliant, kills pretty much all vegetation that it touches if the dose is high enough.

Similarly, many plants have pest repellant characteristics. Native Americans grew squash for thousands of years because it stands up so well to pests and it crowds out competing plants (much as the pine trees do). The vines are covered with small needle like structures and the squash itself has a thick skin that can endure bites from rodents and other creatures. But I wouldn't say that a squash is producing it's own pesticide.

I recently looked at a farm for sale here. It had been an orchard which supplied Gerber in the 1960s. The soil tested positive for arsenic. No surprise there -- arsenic was used heavily in orchards for almost 100 years, still is. It concentrates in the top layers of the soil and won't wash out so this farm was not going to be good for me to grow vegetables on. Not because the vegetable would take up the arsenic (most don't), but because it would be dangerous for ME to till that soil, have it on my skin, clothes and my dogs day after day. My point here is that there is a lot to know about farming and ecology and farmers study this stuff like their life depends on it because their life depends on it. Looking back at the heavy use of DDT, lead and arsenic, we are on the right course with hybrids and biodynamic practices on the rise.

carla

(553 posts)
10. I have the study,
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 12:19 PM
Oct 2013

and I fail to see how it is "a mess". It is one of the best studies simply because of the length of time they looked at their test rats. the GM industry has jumped on Seralini, et al. because they have successfully exposed the fallacies spouted by proponents of GM tech.

I am an organic farmer in Central America and we don't use herbicides, we use vinegar and for tough grasses we use vinegar and salt. It works and it decays int he soil and the salts wash out over the course of a rainy season. GM technology is a bad practice.

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
22. it's rubbish-- the design has been thoroughly discredited....
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 11:30 AM
Oct 2013

This has been discussed at length, so I'll simply suggest that you do a little more research to find the counter arguments. They used a cancer model rat strain-- that develops tumors when well fed-- for pete's sake.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
25. Indeed. And not only that...
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:44 PM
Oct 2013

Review of 10 years of GMO research–no significant dangers
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/review-10-years-gmo-research-no-significant-dangers/

20 points of broad scientific consensus on GE crops by Pamela Ronald
http://www.biofortified.org/2013/10/20-points-of-broad-scientific-consensus-on-ge-crops/



The denialists are in the same league as those who ignore the science on global warming. It's just bizarre.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
13. Can you link us to the large-scale studies that support your theories?
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 11:36 PM
Oct 2013

Last edited Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:28 AM - Edit history (1)

Oh, and not the ones that have been debunked.

Thanks.

PS: What does science say about GMO’s–they’re safe
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/science-gmo-safe/

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
21. Again: Can you link us to the large-scale studies that support your theories?
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:17 AM
Oct 2013

And not the BS small-scale ones that have been debunked far and wide.

PSST: http://www.vegangmo.com/?page_id=1091

On edit, I guess not: Of course, it's not surprising. Here is one of the "signees" -- http://www.alisonwilsonphd.com/

And then there's Project Steve, which says all you need to know about this kind of nonsense: http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve

agent46

(1,262 posts)
4. I think we need more research and debate
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 09:22 AM
Oct 2013

Global climate change? We need more research.
The oceans are dying? We need more research.
Smoking causes cancer? We need more research.
Nuclear power is dangerous and highly toxic. We need more debate.
NSA unconstitutional surveillance overreach? We need more debate.
Hackable electronic voting machines? We don't need any research or debate.
Corporate controlled media? We don't need any research or debate.
The ACA is really landmark national healthcare legislation? We don't need any debate.

No. GMOs are not safe. They allow the farming industry to manufacture, sell and dump unprecedented millions tons more of pesticides and weed killers into the ecosystem. Not only does it represent yet another ecological time bomb, the pesticides are very difficult to remove from the surface of vegetables and fruit and will be going into our systems at unprecedented levels. These pesticides cause cancer and nerve degeneration.

This doesn't even address all the unknowns that remain about the safety of consuming these new super chimera foods that are somehow invulnerable to all these poisons.

Yeah. Just let the "authorities" continue to frame the narrative.

Hell. Maybe people really are just that stupid.







 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
5. If there is nothing wrong with GMOs, why did Monsanto push through the Monsanto Protection Act,
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 09:33 AM
Oct 2013

which gives them immunity from prosecution no matter what happens as a result of using their GMO seeds?
Immunity from damages, immunity from having to test, immunity from any current laws that attempt to curb their spread.
I guess this is another way the TPP and corporations will just ignore American laws and citizens - just repeal regulations or ignore them.
http://www.infowars.com/monsanto-protection-act-resurrected-to-grant-biotech-giant-legal-immunity/

This means that even if Monsanto were to go and plant a genetically modified crop variation that was admitted to cause cancer, they would still be immune. Even if they went and created something called the ‘Cancer Apple’, for example, this Monsanto Protection Act steps in and holds even the federal court system back from doing anything about it. Monsanto is even now more powerful than the bloated federal government.


loudsue

(14,087 posts)
11. If nothing else, the temporary agreement to reopen the government
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 02:18 PM
Oct 2013

managed to undo that horrible piece of legislation.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
23. The pro-GM scientists are suspect at best
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 11:36 AM
Oct 2013

Fox always seems to find scientists who say global warning is undecided. Science isn't what it used to be - lots of "research" is funded by extremely biased interests.

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