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Judi Lynn

(160,076 posts)
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:04 AM Jun 2014

One Of The World's Richest Countries Wants To Ban Begging

One Of The World's Richest Countries Wants To Ban Begging
The Huffington Post | By Emily Thomas
Posted: 06/20/2014 9:50 am EDT Updated: 06/22/2014 1:59 pm EDT

Norway’s parliament is expected to pass an anti-begging law on Friday.

Proposed by members of the right-wing government with support from an opposition party, the bill is said to be aimed at addressing the capital city of Oslo’s pickpocketing problem. According to Agence France-Presse, Oslo's pickpocket rates are reportedly as high as Berlin's, while the capital has one-seventh of the population of the German city.

Under the proposed ban, those caught begging on the street would face fines and up to three months in prison.
If the law passes, it will take effect in 2015 nationwide. Local municipalities will be allowed to ban begging as early as this summer.

Some say this ban specifically targets Romanian immigrants, who make up a majority of Oslo's beggars. Out of the 194 beggars the justice ministry identified in Oslo in 2012, 187 were Romanian citizens, per AFP.

Himanshu Gulati, state secretary at the justice ministry and a member of the populist Progress party, told The Financial Times that begging is often linked to criminal activity and said this type of legislation could help improve crime rates.

More:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/20/norway-beggar-ban-_n_5512662.html

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One Of The World's Richest Countries Wants To Ban Begging (Original Post) Judi Lynn Jun 2014 OP
Begging is not linked to criminal activity; TexasTowelie Jun 2014 #1
I'm still not used to seeing Joe Shlabotnik Jun 2014 #2
The other day I learned that the Swedish media uses censorship davidpdx Jun 2014 #11
Begging is one thing and pickpocketing another. dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #3
There is a difference between... ReRe Jun 2014 #4
I would have thought Norway had enough of right wing government during WWII. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #5
So are... Delver Rootnose Jun 2014 #6
Delver Rootnose Diclotican Jun 2014 #9
Could It Be A Tourist Concern? grilled onions Jun 2014 #7
Judi Lynn Diclotican Jun 2014 #8
Diclotican, do they have a for profit prison industry in Norway yet? Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #12
Uncle Joe Diclotican Jun 2014 #13
Out of sight, out of mind. marble falls Jun 2014 #10

TexasTowelie

(110,971 posts)
1. Begging is not linked to criminal activity;
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:10 AM
Jun 2014

however, poverty might be. It's sad that some people don't see the obvious.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
11. The other day I learned that the Swedish media uses censorship
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:42 PM
Jun 2014

That was a big shock. I also tend to think of the Scandinavian countries as much more liberal than that.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
3. Begging is one thing and pickpocketing another.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:07 AM
Jun 2014

They should leave the former alone and simply increase the penalty for the latter to 10 years or so in prison without parole and apply the same to burglary too.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
4. There is a difference between...
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:43 AM
Jun 2014

... pickpocketing and begging. I think the reason they lump the terms together is because they (pickpockets and beggars) are "Romanians", i.e. Gypsies. I never thought I'd ever hear of discrimination out of Scandinavia.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
9. Delver Rootnose
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 07:22 AM
Jun 2014

Delver Rootnose

I'm not sure how this have with Churches to do - all the time I have yet to experience Churches being half as aggressive as some of the beggars I have experienced where I live - some of them are not exactly taking a no for a no... And I always try to say no in a polite manner to them, when I just do not have money to spend on beggars.... Sometimes times is tight - and I have the money to get true the last couple of weeks - but not to help beggars, even if I wanted to..

But then again - I suspect the different Churches in Norway - tend to act in a different way than say in the US also...

Diclotican

grilled onions

(1,957 posts)
7. Could It Be A Tourist Concern?
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 07:07 AM
Jun 2014

Tourists mean money and anything that could give the tourist dollar a black eye they will fight it. Around the world any event be it summer,sports,political events etc local gov't will shove those, who they think will ruin their image to tourist spending that cash, anywhere possible. Mainly try to hide them,send them packing out of town or jail them if need be.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
8. Judi Lynn
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 07:18 AM
Jun 2014

Judi Lynn

Well, it is little more complicated than just that - that the authorities want to ban begging - even if that would be the end result if the law is going true the parliament - many of them who have been in Norway the last couple of years - many have been here for a couple of years now - is rather aggressive in their begging - and also used by others who take most of the money - and who is misusing the beggars as they often have no resources of their own - to keep some dignity into their life...

The pickpocketing is just a little part of the issue - as I live in Norway I believe I have some idea about what it was all about - and to be honest - the pick pocking issue was never really a big part of it - it was more the fact that some was kind of using the parks and other public places for their camping places - not to say their own toilet and scrap yard that made people going WHAT???? Some of the gypis have also some interesting view of what is others property - and as Huffningpost.com is pointing out - pick-pocking have been on the rise for a couple of years - at par with Berlin who is a million City - Oslo is no where a million city - maybe 500.000 in all - if you count with all the suburbs - and the area around the City - it might be a million in all - but that is a stretch I guess...

And - it is a lot of trafficking going on with the Gypsies too - in the form of people being send from countries like Romania - all the way up to Norway - to work off their debt they have getting - and they often live under rather brutal conditions as they have not been provided for at all - and many is rather shocked by how they live - in squalor - and in a form of poor conditions I guess no one i Norway have seen since way before World War one... But, as many point out - Gypsies are not doing to much either to at least organizes some of it on their own - like have a place where they do their business after a day out - and keeping the camp site somewhat clean - that would do a lot - as it often is the community who have to clean up the camp sites when they are leaving the camps - who often goes into the ten of thousands of kr - and even as Norway is a rich country - many of the counties are not that.. And they are the ones who have to clean it up..

I for one do not believe putting people who is begging in prison, or give them fines they would never be able to pay is the right way to help them - i would prefer they was getting help - to came home where they came from - and also to be given help back home - to secure their own future there - Norway have already given a lot of money to some of this nations Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary - Poland, and a few others- to help Gypsies make some headway when it come to how they are living - as they often not even have a work to to go back home, or in many cases, do not have a home came back to at all.... But the problem is that much of it end up in corrupt pockets - that be from the government - but also from powerfully groups in the community where Gypsies is living - who is using the surplus to anything else than giving Gypsies a better life overall...

It is a sad state of affairs - when Norway have to ban beggars - who would really hurt not just beggars who came from abroad - but also the few beggars we have here (and that in itself is a shame I would say) who could end up being arrested - and given fines they would never be able to pay back... But then what to accept from a dark blue, conservative government - who for the last 8 mounts have been doing a lot of "symbolic politic" rather than govern the country in honest - and always complaining they have not support from the Parliament for their more complex policies... My guess is that the labor party would have to do the governing after a year or so - and to clean up the total mess the conservatives is making of the country as they are in power - as the labor party always would have to have to do - when conservatives are in office...

Diclotican

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
13. Uncle Joe
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:02 AM
Jun 2014

Uncle Joe

No vi do not have any "for profit" prison industry in Norway yet - and I doubt we are getting anything of it anytime soon - all the time it is just the progress-party who really want to have private prisons in Norway - the rest of the parties (we have multi party system in Norway) is rather against the idea of private prisons in Norway.. All current prisons in Norway is owned and operated by the government - aka the state - and to be a correctional officer you need at least 2 year of schooling to even get to be a prison guard - you learn a lot of psychology and other methods to treat prisoners with dignity - and respect - but to be firm when needed - and we do not have the same criminal gangs who rule the prisons from inside like the US have - and I doubt the prison guards is half the military suited that it seen to be the normal life in most of the prisoners in US if we are to trust NGC on the matter..

And compared to even the US prison system - I suspect the prisons in Norway is rather gentle compared - as most prisoners have single bed prison cell - some of the older prisons have less single bed - and more double bed cells - but the newest ones have a rather comfortable compared to many other prisons in this world I would guess... In Norway you even get paid to be in prison - so when your time is up you should have some money with you out the prison gate.... (And if you work, or study you might even get a degree inside the prison - and is able to get a job when out - and it sees like it work - as the fall back percent is at 20 percent - the rest will never go back to the prison because they manage to reachability them self out of the prison system

Diclotican

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