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thomhartmann

(3,979 posts)
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 01:51 PM Mar 2012

Thom Hartmann: Is the endgame for Greece the same for the US?



European austerity continues to takes its toll. On Tuesday - Greece issued a warning to all the banksters who’ve invested in about $260 billion worth of Greek debt - telling them they'd better take a new deal accepting about half the value of their investments - or risk getting nothing at all. Greece is hoping that about 90% of its investors will take the haircut - giving Greece a chance to restructure its debt in a way that’s more manageable. And investors have until Thursday to decide if they’ll take the deal - but if they choose not to - then once again a Greek default becomes a very real possibility. Of course asking investors to take a haircut is nothing compared to what the Greek people have had to sacrifice under years of austerity - with massive layoffs - cuts to social services - and wage decreases. All of which have led to unrest in the streets - hostility with neighboring nations like Germany - and even the ousting of democratically-elected leaders. Greece right now is the epicenter of the crisis of corporate capitalism that is engulfing the world today. And the question isn't how will things work out in Greece - but instead how long until what we're seeing in Greece comes to the United States? Richard Wolff joins Thom now - he is an Economist and Visiting Professor with the Graduate Program in International Affairs at New School University in New York City and Author of the book "Capitalism Hits the Fan."

The Big Picture with Thom Hartmann on RT TV & FSTV "live" 9pm and 11pm check www.thomhartmann.com/tv for local listings
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Thom Hartmann: Is the endgame for Greece the same for the US? (Original Post) thomhartmann Mar 2012 OP
Why should "investors" be expecting any kind of return? KansDem Mar 2012 #1
Yup! Since when are captital risk ventures, supposed to be guaranteed? With no risk? Brettongarcia Mar 2012 #2
It is just another case of "too big to fail" salib Mar 2012 #3
Taking out a little insurance. dtom67 Mar 2012 #5
Austerity - the stupidest idea since voodoo economics. n/t fasttense Mar 2012 #4

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
1. Why should "investors" be expecting any kind of return?
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 03:41 PM
Mar 2012
...telling them they'd better take a new deal accepting about half the value of their investments - or risk getting nothing at all.

I thought "capitalism" meant you take a risk by investing in a product or service, and if that investment pays off, you do well. And if that investment tanks, you lose your investment.

So why do we have now a "Do well and you get rich--don't do well and you get rich" kind of mentality?

Just tell the banksters and investors, "Greece is going under financially...tough luck, you lose your investments."

Brettongarcia

(2,262 posts)
2. Yup! Since when are captital risk ventures, supposed to be guaranteed? With no risk?
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 07:14 PM
Mar 2012

Though to be sure, rule of law, the security of promises, must surely be LARGELY maintained?

By the way? Maybe the United States SHOULD accept a little more austerity. Or? Less violent over-consumption.

Say.

To the super-religious? How about a little less of the vices of ... Greed, and Gluttony? A little more spiritual/intellectual stuff? Quality of life? Love and Peace, and other non-material assets?

And maybe Greece gets back to the simple life? A few goats in the backyard; the sun; the sea breeze. And no BMW and 52' plazma TV?

Let's all get back to the simple basics.

Will be better for us, after all.

dtom67

(634 posts)
5. Taking out a little insurance.
Sat Mar 10, 2012, 01:29 PM
Mar 2012

The problem isn't really the investors who lose money, it's all the banks that have issued credit default swaps on the investment. CDS are a type of insurance against sovereign default. It is a derivative that could create massive losses to that bank that issues it. We are talking about billions of dollars of losses for banks worldwide; including banks here in the US.( Banks that will need more bailouts if they have exposure)
Now, compound that with the possibility that Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Italy have Debt problems. Why wouldn't they just default , too? Spain and Italy are really "Too Big To Bail Out". If Greece is the " First Domino ", we could be talking about a massive global banking crisis.
Basically, letting the banks run around doing whatever they want has painted us all into a corner. Of course, they don't care; they will just ask for another bailout.

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