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tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 10:33 PM Jan 2014

Kelly Thomas Verdict: 'Stunning, Massive Defeat For Prosecution'

Last edited Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:04 PM - Edit history (1)



The verdict of Not Guilty on all four counts against former Fullerton Police officers Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli stunned many. After the full vicious beating was caught on video, it was widely thought the evidence was so strong that officers involved would finally be held accountable for excessive force. But it was not to be.

Leo Terrell notes that as a result of the Not Guilty verdict, the men can now go about applying to get their jobs as police officers back. He also notes that a 3rd officer, Joe Wolfe, also involved in the incident — and who was destined for trial himself — will be breathing a sign a relief at this outcome.

In a verdict that surprised many, the jury in The People v. Ramos and Cicinelli announced their verdict of Not Guilty on all counts. The speed of the verdict was also a surprise to many as it was widely expected that the jury would take longer than the just-under-two-days it appears they needed to render their decision. Their deliberations began late Thursday and continued Monday morning (there was no court on Friday). The announcement was made around 4:00 pm PST.

Leo Terrell has been reporting on the case since it began last year and has been in the courtroom, tweeting the events as they unfolded and providing daily updates on The Kelly Thomas Case at his website, along with video commentary and analysis. I have been following the case and if you listen to how the DA ran the case, it sounds like to me this was an intentionally thrown fight -- and probably for political reasons. The trial itself was not getting much press, especially as it was somehow (by accident?) dropped right in the middle of the busy holiday season when public awareness was likely to be low.

If you choose to watch the video of the incident itself (below), it may shock the imagination that a jury could watch this video and somehow not find the officers guilty. You decide based on what your eyes and ears take in from the video.

And yes, you can hear the officer say to the unarmed, mentally-ill Kelly --
"You see my fists? They're getting ready to F*CK you up."



The defense team painted the unarmed, unaggressive Kelly Thomas as a dangerous, violent person who the cops used proper force in dealing with... even the act of beating his face in with their tasers...

....and the jury, as of today, agreed.








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Kelly Thomas Verdict: 'Stunning, Massive Defeat For Prosecution' (Original Post) tomm2thumbs Jan 2014 OP
Wait, so the OP's sugestion is that we look at one piece of the evidence, not any of the other kelly1mm Jan 2014 #1
you can do as you like tomm2thumbs Jan 2014 #2
The evidence is in the video. pacalo Jan 2014 #5
All the evidence presented in the trial is on the video? I think not. nt kelly1mm Jan 2014 #6
It shows the cause of Kelly Thomas' death. pacalo Jan 2014 #7
Probably so. And ?????? There is a difference between causing a death kelly1mm Jan 2014 #8
I'd like to see how the defense team put the spin on this one. pacalo Jan 2014 #9
I would like to see the additional evidence too. The video is VERY damaging kelly1mm Jan 2014 #10
Not in this case, kelly. pacalo Jan 2014 #11
A group of 'mentally ill' cops..... (eom) CanSocDem Jan 2014 #12
They're cops. MynameisBlarney Jan 2014 #13
Cops, Too Big To Fail blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #17
You are UNBELIEVABLE. n/t bitchkitty Jan 2014 #20
Leo Terrell is a nut Politicalboi Jan 2014 #3
Keep it Up.. 12ZTR Jan 2014 #4
I do not care dotymed Jan 2014 #14
It seems dwilso40641 Jan 2014 #15
Chilling, isn't it? blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #18
Justice, Denied blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #16
From http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Kelly-Thomas-Police-Beating.jpg: blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #19

kelly1mm

(4,734 posts)
1. Wait, so the OP's sugestion is that we look at one piece of the evidence, not any of the other
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 10:43 PM
Jan 2014

evidence presented in court or listen to the court's instructions and then make a sound judgment? Um, no thanks.

I certainly am not saying that I would have found the officers not guilty but I also do not have all the evidence that the jury had. Does the OP?

pacalo

(24,721 posts)
5. The evidence is in the video.
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:28 PM
Jan 2014

Looking at the video, what did Kelly Thomas do to warrant that kind of abuse from a gang of officers? Does the public accept the way the officers handled this mentally ill person -- not because he was doing anything wrong, but simply because they knew they could jerk him around?

kelly1mm

(4,734 posts)
8. Probably so. And ?????? There is a difference between causing a death
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:58 PM
Jan 2014

and criminal homicide. As I said, I am not agreeing with the jury at all. What I am saying is that I believe it foolish to ONLY look at one piece of evidence out of all the evidence presented and make your determination solely on that one piece of evidence.

Let me give and outlandish example:
Let's assume you have a video of the OBL killing. And that is it. No explanation of who he was, or what he did. Just a video of some people going to his house and shooting him. Was the shooting the cause of death - sure it was. Was it murder - no. But if you did not get evidence outside of the video, you would not know those additional facts. All you would see is some dude getting shot in the head (I assume).

Am I saying this poor guy was like OBL - absolutely not. What I am saying, again, is that we should examine all the evidence (if available) and not SOLELY look at one piece of evidence.

pacalo

(24,721 posts)
9. I'd like to see how the defense team put the spin on this one.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:44 AM
Jan 2014

Some things are what they are; the video speaks for itself, imo. They beat him mercilessly & he died.

kelly1mm

(4,734 posts)
10. I would like to see the additional evidence too. The video is VERY damaging
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:52 AM
Jan 2014

to the defense so I would hope that they had something good to get a not guilty verdict.

At least we seem to agree that seeing all the evidence is better than seeing only one piece of evidence and making a conclusion on that, no?

pacalo

(24,721 posts)
11. Not in this case, kelly.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:01 AM
Jan 2014

I just can't imagine any evidence outside of this video that would have justified a group of officers beating the pulp out of a mentally ill person, causing his death.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
3. Leo Terrell is a nut
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:17 PM
Jan 2014

But that jury must have either been paid or threatened. I hope this man can sue these overweight assholes who call themselves cops. 4 cops can't take care of a man who weighs about 170 pounds.

 

12ZTR

(92 posts)
4. Keep it Up..
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:19 PM
Jan 2014

and sooner or later LEOs will kill the wrong person & a family member or friend will go extremely and uncontrollably angry & even violent.
I ask myself. Who will be their target?

dotymed

(5,610 posts)
14. I do not care
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:59 AM
Jan 2014

what happened preceding the video.

The video clearly shows 4 killers (just because they are "LEO's, they do not have the right to viciously beat and kill a relatively compliant person) taking the life of a human being, for no reason, he was not a threat.

It is compounded by the verbal threats the cops used.
How can anyone vote "not guilty" in this situation?
These good citizens may be their next victims. They approve their tactics so if those same tactics are used against them.....

Our nation does not resemble the same nation whose citizens used to be protected by "a god damned piece of paper."

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