the same answer our government does...

its legal by law here! we follow the law!


btw, I guess putin never heard of his own program, 'The System of Operative-Investigative Measures'.

another, I knew the answer was "Yes!" we do have as much surveillance as our technological capacity will allow, but as you very well know, I'm not going to admit that we do illegal surveillance (although, of course, we Russians do).

Snowden has put out a challenge to any Russian who is privy to the fact that, indeed, Russia does do mass surveillance to get a conscience and summon up the courage that Snowden himself has and come out and expose the Russian surveillance program.

I think it was a courageous challenge on the part of Snowden to the pretense on the part of Putin that his country is a country of laws when in fact . . . it is highly likely that Russia and some other countries have programs like ours or would have such programs if they had the money and technology to have them.

And I am not at all persuaded by Putin's statement that Russia does not have the money for such a program. They do have the money. And they probably have a program maybe slightly less intrusive and a lot less well organized than ours.

So I think Snowden was brave to ask that question. And Snowden's tone, his voice, sounded fearless and not at all submissive. He was challenging Putin, not flattering him.

I always thought he looks like a rabid pit bull with those close set eyes. Yuck. I know, don't judge a book by it's cover and all that, but I think I'm right on this one.

And please, no pit bull lover comments.

Yup! He's a Russian AND tool!

...what a corrupt, stupid fuck.

He was given the chance to ask a government leader a question and he asked the same question he would've asked any government leader if given the chance. Putin said what any government leader would say, including our own. If he'd asked President Obama this question he would've received the same answer.

And what is it with this hate Putin crowd? It's as if they want to start another cold war. I'm no fan of Putin. I never liked him since the RepubliCON Supremes appointed W to look deep into Putin eyes and see his soul. If W thinks the man is Ok, then I knew the man was a piece of work. But these Russian bashers are acting as if there still is a USSR and commies are under every bed.

Get over it. Russia and Communism are not the enemy anymore, if they ever were. I think the new enemy is women, gays, the poor, labor unions and minorities. Putin haters need to catch up with the times.

an SEC retiree, whistle-blowers, investigative journalists, do so because they must lash out at those that seek the truth.

"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." Nietzsche.

Maybe a nice warm bear-hug from a conservative authoritarian like General Clapper.

Politically Liberal people favor transparency.

"those that seek the truth"...I think I saw that stilted verbiage on a Hallmark card or in Plan 9 from Outer Space. Get over yrself

to insult me, you've failed at that also. Come back when you want to have a decent discussion.

the point is the blazing paradox of talking about transparency and Russia at the same time, except as opposites. Does it bother Snowden fans at all that he's camped out in one of the largest (and least transparent) dictatorships in the world?

am thick, tell me what the lack of transparency in Russia has to do with the USofA. It would appear that you are throwing out shit to distract from the apparent lack of transparency in the USofA. "Look, look Snowden is in Russia and Russia is bad." OK, so what is your point again? If you are trying to say that going to Russia proves that Snowden didnt have good intentions to reveal problems in the NSA, again you've failed.

I may not be very bright but even I recognize that we have potential problems with the NSA. Snowden isnt the only one that has brought up questions. Gen Clapper lying should be a red flag. Spewing hatred about Snowden has no effect on that, and is a poorly veiled attempt at distraction. Snowden can marry Putin and it has no baring on what is happening at the NSA.

Please dont bother to reply if you cant be civil.

totally reflects on his intentions, motivations, judgment and credibility.

It makes his intentions dubious, his motivation unclear, his judgment extremely poor and this credibility nonexistent.

If you can't see that...then you can't see. It's no different than if he were appearing on some Neo-Nazi website and claiming all sorts of things about the government. It seriously damages--nay destroys--the ability to take him seriously.

And these things are important, because many of Snowden's statements and charges have proven to be greatly exaggerated or just plain wrong.

Personally, I think the NSA panic fest is one big distraction that simply feeds both America's addiction to paranoia and the RW machine that expels that paranoia. And that is why Snowden's destroyed cred, and his dalliance with dictatorships that make the USA look like a utopia in comparison, is so important.

It's a good read when you have time:

Snowden Calls BS On Putin's Answer: Says He Was Playing The Role Of Ron Wyden--Mike Masnick

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024840643

And I must say that the absolute certainty that you espouse detracts from your claim to be politically liberal. Open-minded persons rarely are absolutely certain.

Your crystal ball can determine the insufficiently liberal... Bring on the reeducation camps
I replied in depth to Snowden's sad plight here http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4845078

I dont claim to be certain but IMO whistle-blowers fight for democracy while authoritarians like Herr General Clapper fight for the plutocratic-oligarchy. But I do understand the comfort some seek when hiding behind the big bully. When choosing sides they go with the power.

You're right, I'm absolutely certain that Putin is a dangerous, gay-bashing, democracy-killing dictator that just took over part of a sovereign country. I'm absolutely certain that it's not progressive to collaborate with or rationalize his regime, and I'm certain that it is progressive to support Pussy Riot and all the people in Russia brave enough to stand up to Putin. I'm also certain that my certainty in this doesn't make me not "liberal", but instead makes me the kind of kick-ass liberal/progressive/whatever that doesn't tolerate nonsense, haters, and those who think liberalism equals blaming America first.

How dare you compare Clapper to a Nazi general? Have you no shame or sense of history? Clapper would be a progressive in Putin's government. Come to your senses or learn some history ferkrisake

the Constitution. IMO an open-minded Democrat would react and say that we dont know if Snowden is honest but it's certainly worth investigating. But there are others that immediately scream for lynching Snowden. Now I dont say we know what the truth is, but those that scream hatred for Snowden seem to want to close the door, to punish Snowden, to ignore the possibility of Constitutional violations. The obsessive ad hominem attacks should be beneath politically liberal people.

sounds like your favoring delusion over illusion.. not sure that's an answer either


we don't live in a world where every person is rational, thoughtful, or even logical/sane .. this idea that all problems can be solved peacefully is a silly one.. I assume those who think this have looked at just our history as a nation to know that peace doesn't always solve problems.
some of the biggest changes in this country came at the hands of people spilling blood. nobody should ever be in favor of that method, but sometimes talking doesn't work.
many union folks learned that the hard way early on in our labor movement.

sorry, but human nature isn't ready for a pure ideology yet.. too many primal emotions and instincts left for that. too much greed.. too much need for control.. too much loving self without respecting self... and the society that's been created doesn't not encourage people to move away from those feelings/notion.. but rather embrace them.

Btw, Im not a fan of snowden or greenwald.. but I don't consider them any of the things you listed after their names.. so I don't see a conflict of interest in disliking them for their personal beliefs and motives.

whistleblowing = good
espionage = bad

I agree with your "whistleblowing = good espionage = bad" Please dont tell me you believe that Snowden has given our enemies state secrets? That's certainly a CT. I think that the NSA/CIA/FBI need strict oversight. Especially when it comes to violating the Constitutional rights of Americans. I expect the Bush followers to throw the Constitution to the wind, but not "politically liberal" people.

Ad hominem attacks against Snowden and Greenwald are childish and really counter productive to whatever your motive is.

And saying "lamo" is rude.

they don't care about Americans having their data collected, yet we're to believe that they're overly concerned about Russians being spied on by their government?!

was probably taught being watched by the government was a good thing after all..

of course they don't care.


the leftist movement in Russia is almost non-existent at times... those fascist Stalinists really destroyed the hearts/souls of a lot of people.

How fucking irrational is it to demonize someone for informing the world that their rights do not exist?

"Open my eyes will ya, ya TRAITOR!"
IDIOTIC AND DISGUSTING!

etc.

Whistle-blowers ruin the naive illusion of authoritarian security.

the disconnect is stunning.

with those you call "bashers". His "support" in the US is on the decline. So who's the desperate one?

Huffpo: "Americans Might Not Support Edward Snowden, But They Support Disclosing Programs"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/01/edward-snowden-support_n_5071938.html

okay then.