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alp227

(31,943 posts)
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:33 PM Jun 2014

Thom Hartmann apologizes to Keith Olbermann for calling him pro-war



From Monday's radio show. Hartmann responded to a NewsBusters article quoting him from a recent TV interview with Mike Papantonio calling Keith Olbermann a "big cheerleader" for the Iraq War when commenting about the history of war coverage in media. (Link goes to "DoNotLink.com" - to avoid strengthening Newsbusters' search engine placement.)
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marble falls

(56,029 posts)
1. Pretty darn thin apology, "I don't remember 14 years ago" and "we were the only news organization"..
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:52 PM
Jun 2014

to oppose the war policy, "apparently I was wrong". What he doesn't seem to know is he was wrong. Apparently someone else has only told him so. Its so clear he does not want to apologize.

navarth

(5,927 posts)
3. I thought the apology was fine, but the history of the thing was a bit muddy
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:21 PM
Jun 2014

Thom had to eat a tiny bit of crow there, I think. He's a good man, it won't hurt him too much. He's done a lot of good so it's not hard to forgive him if he 'mis-remembers' something.

I think he understood he'd been wrong, and then tried to move the topic back to his original subject, which was media war cheerleading because of increased profit, and the need for a firewall between the news division and sales.

My 2 cents.


Please don't do that one again, Thom; I hate to see 2 of the good ones mad at each other.

90-percent

(6,817 posts)
4. I adore both thom and Keith, but........
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:00 PM
Jun 2014

Thom has got it really wrong about Keith here. Keith was not a cheerleader for the war, ever. I recall Keith was the most courageous journalist on cable in that era. Which is why I became a fan. The entire MSM became a “patriotic” echo chamber cheer leading the war, but my memory of Keith is he was one of the most courageous and honorable journalists of that era. Thom’s right almost all of the MSM was craven in their uncritical support of the invasion, but I have no recollection what so ever of Keith being party to that lot of sell outs? I do remember Chris Mathew’s slobbering; “We are all neocons now.” And I think Chris' reporting is just what his corporate masters wanted out of him and everybody else at that time.

Keith was not only an excellent journalist, but a courageous and principled one.

Thom is awesome, but he was pretty half assed in this case accusing Keith of something I cannot recall him doing. (I also can’t recall when Keith started at MSNBC and when I starting watching him in earnest? It might have been a year or two after the invasion, even?)

Keith’s absence from political cable news leaves a tremendous gap in our national discussion. I'm glad he’s making a living doing the sports he loves, but our country would be a better place if Keith was back doing political commentary and analysis. Come to think of it, Keith would still be in that game if he had compromised his principles to get along and keep his jobs. He stood for what he believed, even though in the end it cost him his slot in the MSM.

Thanks for the less than robust apology, Thom. The main benefit of Iraq's current state of turmoil is good in the sense it is forcing the world to revisit how we got into Iraq back in 2003 in the first place. And in hindsight, it's clear that all the GWB toadies knew they were lying as they were catapulting the propaganda. I recall GWB ginning up fear and talking about mushroom clouds like a scout master telling ghost stories around the camp fire to a group of boy scouts.

-90% Jimmy

ps - for further reference, here's my failed DU post in large part about the traitors that lied us into that stupid tragic invasion. Reportage from my visit to my Congressman's Town Hall of last Sunday. The two youtubes are overwhelming to watch, as the lying and mendacity and propaganda and banality of that crew is constructed entirely of their own public statements, before compared with after. Lots of "I never said that". Like they don't understand they were recorded and we can check what they said! Those cretins can't even lie good. And why should they learn? MSM was such agenda driven corporate propaganda these guys could get away with murder. Uh, I mean, did indeed get away with murder. Vincent Bugliosi,in the second youtube even wrote a book; "The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder" back around 2006?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025142323

navarth

(5,927 posts)
5. Hey Jimmy you'll be glad to hear that
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:09 PM
Jun 2014

I just listened to the entire section of Thom's show whence this clip was taken. The mystery has been solved. Thom was thinking of Chris Matthews.

It's a drag that he could ever mistake Keith for CM, but he'll remember now, I'll bet. Kinda disappointing but I'll get over it.

I'll check your thread, but I hear you already about the weasel talk that comes out of some 'representatives'. Fucking disgusting rat fucks. Yes, I'm familiar with the Bugliosi book, thanks.

Other than that, I have no opinion.

90-percent

(6,817 posts)
7. thanks for that info, navarth
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:51 PM
Jun 2014

high correlation with my memories of that era. it reminds me of a recent Richard Wolff quote; "The American workplace is the most undemocratic institution on the planet." Most journalists of that era were in the same boat as us worker bees; give the boss what he wants and keep your job, or stand true to your principles and enjoy your unemployment.

It's hard for almost all of us, including myself, to remain honorable to your principles when it means losing a job or career. These days being honorable is so "quaint", but Keith sure as hell was. Thom is, too. They are both awesome. Thom engages righties, very respectfully. That's pretty damn honorable and courageous journalism. Still hasn't gotten him on Hannity or Limbaugh, but he's honorable and they are craven worms in the same moral place in history as Father Coughlin, Joe McCarthy and Tokyo Rose.

Your input is why I highly value DU, If I can't substantiate things, my DU mates can. DU is the primary place in my life I know I can go to get high quality bona fide info. And has been since at least 2004.

-90% jimmy

navarth

(5,927 posts)
9. no worries, bro
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:31 PM
Jun 2014

Glad to contribute whenever I can. I'm usually too tongue-tied to say anything more than "thanks for posting" or "I agree".

Yeah Thom and Keith are both personal heroes to me. I sure hope KO gets the message it was a mistake.

90-percent

(6,817 posts)
11. thanks radiclib
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 07:48 PM
Jun 2014

If I have posted worthwhile things on DU, it's because I have stood on the shoulders of DU giants. To be self critical, most of my stuff I consider to be mediocre regurgitation of ideas and info found elsewhere.

As I strive to channel the writing styles of Frank Zappa and Hunter S. Thompson, I adhere to FZ's approach to his career; "First don't stop. Second, keep going."

And one thing I recently understood better is the Nazi/Fox News BIG LIE technique of repeating something enough times and it becomes true. If that can work with lies, imagine the impact when you do the same thing with truth, reason and facts!

And there's so much that bears repeating. I think I repost George Carlin's "Corporations Own You" every six months and it always scores over 5 rec's every time.



And I've learned that such profound classic thinking is not necessarily included in the set of root concepts every DU member includes in their core P.O.V. So it's lot more constructive than I realized that there's so much info out there that bears repeating and reinforcement.

And DU is preaching to the choir, so I've recently been doing a lot of DU type posts over at Facebook, where some of my best friends are Conservative. And I try to engage those types in the manner of Thom Hartmann, respectful and dignified but firm on where I stand. Which results in comments like this: "Jim...you're one of the few liberals I've engaged who can conjure a critical thought and write it down...I think the others can agree...which is why we're engaging you." I'm sick of the divide and conquer tactics of the Oligarchs and it's my belief we have more in common than our differences.

And, as long as I'm blathering, one of the most hurtful things I experienced on DU was when I posted a link to a drudge or a newsmax type item to discuss oppo research. And I was shut down 5 to 1 by a DU jury. Tried and convicted by a jury of my peers for being a right wing troll. My feelings were really hurt by that one, as it happened less than a year ago, after I'd been here perhaps nine years. Like I spent nine years and 4,500 posts to go deep undercover so I could slip in one subversive piece of righty propaganda.

And while I'm being so self absorbed, one thing I'm most proud of with my half assed activism is when I went to the September 10, 2009 Tea Party Rally at the state Capital in Hartford carrying a sign that read; "Tea Baggers are astroturf puppets of fascist corporations." That could not suck enough, as I did not run into one single counter protester. And I have never seen a pic of myself on the internet. I was hoping to become the right wing version of the "Get a brain Morans!" guy.

And I was happy to go see Chris Hedges speak at Central CT State University in New Britain last March. I spoke to him after the talk, and as disappointed to find out, although he was there reporting the Czechoslovakia Velvet Revolution, he had no awareness what so ever of Frank Zappa's role in helping that revolution come to be in the first place. Oh, well. At least Frank got to pal around with Vaclev Havel for a while.



A very interesting point about Chris speech. During the Q&A, (which was not part of this recording) a lawyer spoke to Chris about why the legal profession is utterly impotent about righting any of the legal wrongs that have been piling up over the years. He had participated in some Occupy cases, and he got the word from somebody up high in the Bar Association, or whatever Guild all lawyers belong to, with the chilling message that was something like; "Nice law practice you have there. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it if you continue to represent these OWS people, would you?"

And I mention that because doesn't the legal profession have an important Constitutional Role to insure checks and balances are working properly to keep our Democracy a Democracy? Most of the legal profession has remained utterly mute as our Constitutional rights have continued to be rendered inoperative since 9-11. Just one more of the checks and balances dismantled over the last thirty years as the Oligarch's reshape our country into a Middle Ages Paradise for the elites, and drudgery and suffering and hopelessness for the rest of us.

Chris has covered Revolutions and he said all that's needed is for one percent of the population to be engaged in the profound change that triggers a revolution. So if us Revolutionary 1%'ers want to git 'er done, we better bone up on Chris' body of work. He's got the roadmap.

-jim

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
8. Ahh… Interesting. I thought this was strange until you posted that.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:17 PM
Jun 2014

My recollection as to who was doing what at MSNBC between Phil Donahue and Keith Olbermann is fuzzy around that time. I remember how shocked I was to see what the network did to Donahue, and… who was this sports guy… Keith who???

Thom Hartmann apologized. He was wrong. I think he should take the opportunity to clarify that the dips hit ass kisser Tweety was the cheerleader. I can't stand Chris Matthews.

Olbermann… Ah, the man had his problems that had NOTHING to do with the quality of every SINGLE one of his shows, but that's "entertainment", EH?????

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
6. Thom describes the demise of liberal media. I never trusted MSNBC after the rise of their pundits
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:33 PM
Jun 2014
during the Clinton impeachment fiasco.

Tweety and many others became household names stoking the media feeding frenzy for the GOP, and made their pay daily by giving validity to a string of sleazy Scaife-funded crooks.

I guess a lot of people don't remember those days. It was the result of Rush and others going after Hillary's attempt to expand healthcare. The daily mantra was Death Panels, Nazi eugenics with a national health service to kill off the elderly and disabled. It was very effective in scaring people to vote GOP to stop Hillary killing their loved ones.

Because the groundwork had already been done to set up the atmosphere by media through Whitewater, Travel Office Gate, Trooper Gate, anything to destroy the charismatic POTUS and his wife, to make it easier to mock all progressive ideas.

Thus the Gingrich majority was voted in. Then the GOP, with full media support, kept his administration in hot water to distract from his agenda with a government shut down. They put to work the Death Panels on the elderly and disabled themselves in closed sessions where they gutted Medicare, which had been as good as the best of the private insurers. And went after Medicaid and every other thing that had been accomplished since the New Deal. The process has been gradual, destroying those ideas and not wanting to get rid of everything after the Tenth Amendment. But I digress.

The Donahue censorship was like a knife to the heart, but we'd already seen Dan Rather gone after for telling the truth - not just about the Shrub, but simply the fact of the change in who the owners were. It was a warning of the end. Now such information is scrubbed from the net, edited out or distorted or only spoken of from the complete opposite POV without any attempt at balance by the networks having created an alternate reality.

And it's gotten geometrically worse since Obama got in office. There is a reason Thom and others who believe as we do are shut out of mainstream media.

KO was shut out because he was giving Democrats support and hope and expounding on the morality of our causes very well. He was becoming dangerous so they needled him until he blew up and then they did a complete character assassination on him as they have done so many times before (Rather) to silence us.

We are being driven over the cliff by the big money. Thom sees it and endorses the move to amend to let the people get out of the back seat and only allowed to vent and not change the big things that effect us, at least, not with media's help.

He made an excellent apology and analysis here. Thanks for posting it.

joanbarnes

(1,715 posts)
12. Love you Thom, but Keith Olbermann is a GOD. The ONLY one who questioned theft of election 2004
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jun 2014

He help me hold on to my sanity in those dark days.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
13. Thom, I'm your bud. But I do not remember Keith ever talking up or supporting the war.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 05:19 PM
Jun 2014
MSNBC as a network, was all in favor of the war, of course.
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