they will find a way in again!

represented. Our present system has brought us to this corrupt state of gov't.

With the vast majority of state legislatures in GOP hands, what delusional madman would support such a thing? Especially a Democrat!! Arrrrgh! The stupid! Even in our party!

The lunatic fringe on the right has been busy, busy, busy on this agenda for years.

Convention to amend the Constitution. (RWW)

The link provides the most recent of these efforts of which I have heard for decades, mostly from a religious right perspective, often overtly theocratic.

Some excerpts from the link:

about everyone knows how corrupt things are. VT & CA have voted for this & with the recent SCOTUS rulings, how can anyone believe anything of substance will be done keeping the status quo? TYT are not right wing.

This has been a religious right plank going back to the 80's. And with the vast majority of the state legislatures in GOP hands, why in the Sam Hell would anybody trust them on this? They oppose everything Dems want to do. It is fucking naive that they would compromise on this.

It's utter delusional to ignore the religious right's history on this. Mark my words, they do not have a secular purpose in mind.

Did you even read the article at the link? Not sure if there was even time to do so since I posted. Plus, there are citations in the article. You couldn't have clicked through those.

But I guess you know, eh?

Trust me, this is a worry. These guys are being played. Of COOURRRRSE the GOP wants an Article V Convention. I am shocked Cenk doesn't know that, let alone know why.

I KNOW Cenk's WOLFPAC is NOT fundy or GOP (and neither are the DU'ers who believe Cenk is right & believe everything is corrupt), but I understand your feelings because honestly anyone who is a dem would have the same initial response, until we forget about Rand Paul & religious fundies and think about our own realizations of how screwed up the recent SCOTUS decisions have been. Do you really think the campaign finance issue is not to blame?


http://www.tytnetwork.com/?s=Article+V+Convention

How We Can Fight Back Against the Supreme Court

But once one opens up the Constitution to the state legislatures, how does one put the brakes on? And if those state legislatures are majority religious right wackaloons, what then?

Once the deal is in motion, how does one stop it?

As I said, the lunatic fringe has been wanting this for decades, so they can change the US Constitution in their way. And let me tell you, that isn't a country most of us would want to live in.

It's one of those Oopsy! Who woulda thunk that? deals. Well there are those who think it. Some of us have to cover others butts on these things. It does not matter what one gains if, on the hind side, one loses everything.

Why would the GOP agree to it?

would be to safeguard this democracy and get money out of politics (Citizen United, ALEC), that is no more democracy, than you are fundy. Corruption has screwed us all out of representation, and SCOTUS needs a damned wake up call because they sure the sam hill aren't representing a democracy either.

Do you recall the Gore election? Come on! We can go on and on can't we? How happy are you about protecting Holly Hobby?

And if you don't understand that fact, we'll just have to respectively (always!) disagree. And the floodgates in this case are controlled by the state legislatures, which (in case anybody hasn't noticed) are predominately in GOP hands.

I would never bet against the house with those odds. The question is, why would anybody?

And, as I said, the lunatics have been wanting this for decades. It's that Christian Country thingie again.

So by all means. Let's go. We've got them right where they want us.

getting money out of politics. Congress is not doing their job.

How long are you willing to wait for reform? Forever?

If you listen to the other video I posted, Cenk's speech, perhaps you will acknowledge how badly things have gotten & what has brought any sensible democrat to this point, because at least at the state and county level we truly still have a voice. Are you willing to wait for that to disappear? I'm not.

Who's betting against the house? I think WOLFPAC is trying to save the house from total destruction.

Do you doubt the corporate coup d'état is winning? Some might say it's already won. They've already got us where they want us.

Isn't time to react?

Take over the House and hold the Senate.

That's how this gets done.

I would never agree to an Article V convention with the state legislatures in their current condition. Plus, with the Religious Right explicitly wanting that very thing. NEVER! EVER !

My regards.

It's campaign finance, and until we reform that, there is NO democracy.

Not possible right now due to gridlock. We need majority in the House and super majority in the Senate to even have a realistic chance. But that would still have to go to the states for ratification, but there'd be some time for that, even years.

But much less risky than a convention which would allow the GOP majority in the states to go hog wild. That's why we've never had one, not since the first one. Not even the Bill of Rights was done with a convention; it was all in Congress, and ratified by the states.

Here:
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution/article-v.html

the gridlock and the corruption of our broken gov't to continue without calling an end to it.

If you believe in the process of democracy or the founding fathers understanding the need for that safeguard, than trust in that process.

Campaign finance reform has been the issue of our lifetime, and it will continue to wreak havoc, until we actually do something about it.

Once you open a constitutional convention, any and all amendments could be adopted. In a feeding frenzy by the overwhelmingly GOP state legislatures which would appoint the delegations, they could rip the Constitution to shreds. And the federal congress would have no more say in it, nor SCOTUS (since we'd have a new Constitution for them to enforce).

An Article V Convention is a horrible idea, which is why we've never done it.

You want to amend the Constitution? Do it the way it's been done 27 times (in over 11,500 attempts -- it isn't supposed to be easy). Bring it up in Congress.

Corruption grows until you fix what's broken, democracy isn't about buying influence & politicians or courts ruling in favor of the same oligarchy or plutocracy.

If we went by your feelings, there'd be no USA, we'd still be part of Great Britain.

Peace, longship, you and I will not agree on this, but either way, we will see what happens whether it goes thru or not.
If it doesn't, your way will be all that's left...

It is the state legislatures who make up the convention delegates. Once the Congresses starts the damn Constitutional Convention steam roller going, it cannot be stopped or reined in. The delegations at the conventions make all the decisions and approve all the changes.

Poof! And it's done. You already voted when you selected your state legislator and/or senator. Once Congress approves that thing and it starts rolling, there's no telling what changes will get made. And once they're made, US Congress has no say. It's just fucking done.

That's why it's never been done that way before (except the first time). It's fucking dangerous. And that's precisely why the Religious Right are creaming their pants to do it.

Want to change the US Constitution? Fine. Put a bill in Congress. Get it passed in both houses by super majorities and send it to the states for ratification. 27 times that has succeeded, out of over 11,500 attempts.

It's slow, but safe. It keeps the pin in the damned grenade that blows the whole thing up.

Sorry: multiple edits.

this is simply not a religious right issue or a GOP issue, though it is the one thing everyone will agree on.

The delegates choose. And they are chosen by the various state legislatures, who start the whole process. This is how our first US Constitution was drafted.

Once the changes are adopted, it's done. Any and all changes become part of the new Constitution.

And with the vast majority of state legislatures in GOP hands, we'd be utterly fucked.

No wonder they'll work with Wolf PAC on this. It's something they've been aching for.

You see, in a Con Con, you cannot limit the agenda. The whole thing is open to change. Does any sane person want that?

emergency meeting...no runaways....

the three-fourths needed for ratification. This step btw, is the last one in the process, therefore Dem state legislatures would just reject it, if indeed anything objectionable managed to get that far.

And the reason is it had an open ended goal not a specific one.

The point that is being made is that it is the ONLY thing we can agree on with the right and why not seize that opportunity to get what would be good for us all but the country.
The prize is to get the money out of politics...keep your eyes on the prize.

Edited to note.
A constitutional convention would need 2/3 to pass anything...so how wold something radical fare in the convention? (should it ever be brought up)...but something we could all agree on would fair well I think.

Do I have to inform you of how bad Dems are in the state legislatures?

And again, once the convention is convened, nothing is off the table. And with these lunatic state legislatures, bye-bye Constitution as we know it. And Congress has no oversight at that point.

Oopsie!!! Too late.

That's why the religious right has been clamoring for a ConConv for decades and why no sane Democrat should support it.

Well not in my state...and I bet not in 2/3 of the US ether.
And your state Representatives are more likely to listen to you than the federal ones who are in the DC bubble...
And I cannot imagine a CC that is wide open to any kind of change someone can think up...and if it is it don't make any difference anyway because we are lost.

We can continue to do what we have been doing and we will get the same results, and just look how far that has gotten us...we are more under control by the oligarchical powers now than ever before, and it will not change for the better.

We have a lunatic house and senate here who censored a state senator for saying the word "vagina" on the floor. That brought a live performance of The Vagina Monologues to the steps of our state capital in protest within that same week. High art, but a very sad state of affairs.

Yup! We are ostensibly a blue state, but there's no use in me calling my state Rep, state senator, or US Rep for anything other than entertainment. The religious right has a stranglehold on the MI GOP, especially in west MI which is heavily Calvinist in the cities, and Pentecostal in rural areas. No hope here.

The numbers in the state legislatures are not good for us at all. That's across the USA. Check them out some day.

But, yup. Dems here will probably retain our a Senate seat this year (Levin's seat). But we also have that asshole Snyder. Not sure if we can defeat him. We'll try.

Everything else here is pretty much loony toons. Well, we still have Detroit, what's left of it.

Nationally, we're blue but locally we're red it seems. Leave us not forget we've got our very own Koch family with the DeVos types. And Monaghan and Illitch (the murderers of Tiger Stadium).

I didn't know you were a Michigander, longship. I've been enjoying your conversation with mother earth, most compelling arguments on both sides.

And yes you have Detroit, and there's a whole lot of goodness left in it, don't worry; and also Ann Arbor, Lansing, lots of the voters in Oakland County vote blue.

But right now the Great Lakes State wouldn't make a good contribution to a Constitutional Convention, I suspect. Very troubling, because Cenk has some good points and I most certainly want the money taken out of government.

the right to spend money to buy our politicians.

The above is the statement of the WOLFPAC petition:

http://www.wolf-pac.com/petition

Because it means at least 3/4 of the states are controlled by right wing radicals...if that is the case then just roll over and give it up.

I don't buy it for a minut...my state would never vote to ratify your right wing fear ammendment...and I can name at least more than 1/4 of them that would not etier...
Your fear is unfounded in facts.

It's about the unbounded mess that could ensue under a GOP lead convention, whose sole purpose is a machine to amend the constitution. They could do a lot of damage with little things with large consequences down stream.

Yup, the GOP has the House, but we currently have the Senate. Hopefully we will keep that.

So why a convention? It gains no advantage over just putting a bill through the House and Senate, and is safe because there's no implied invitation to keep amending. Also, it affords some time to drum up support for ratification by the states.

In the convention, you'd better damned well have the 3/4 for ratification at the get go or your screwed. (Well, actually you could still probably send it to the states once it passes 2/3. IANAL, so I am not sure and Article V is not too specific.)

My overwhelming reason for opposing the convention is that a particular portion of the radical religious right have been trumpeting for a constitutional convention for decades. That alone scares me. Big time. When Democrats bring up the topic I worry.

Have a good night, everybody.

Which is why they create boogie men to keep scared and hiding under the covers.

The truth is 75% of the people or our legislatures are not fundamentalist Christians and not ever likely to be.
But I guess it works that way...if your opponent wants something then you must not want it...it is child psychology used on us.

but you might see things differently if you lived in a state like Mich. where the Repubs are completely having their way.

Not meaning to start an argument with you, I think you're one of the good ones.

But as much as they would like us to believe it, the right wing is not the majority...they probably make up only about 35% of the people.
But because they are bullies they have a louder voice.

And thanks for the kind words.

July 1, 2014

Activists Nationwide to Urge Senators to Back Constitutional Amendment to Curb Money in Politics

Marches, Street Theater, Giant Thank You Cards and More: Over 100 Events Planned This Week

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Activists nationwide are planning more than 100 rallies, marches, street theater, thank you card deliveries, protests and other events to urge their U.S. senators to back a constitutional amendment to curb the flow of money into politics.

The amendment pending in the U.S. Senate (S.J. 19) by U.S. Sen. Tom Udall (D-N.M.) would establish that Congress and the states have the power to regulate and limit election spending. A Senate Judiciary subcommittee has held a hearing and markup, and the full committee will mark up and vote on the amendment in July, likely July 10. Forty-five senators currently support the constitutional amendment.

Groups of grassroots activists will hold a variety of actions, including bringing a giant thank you card to U.S. Sen. Barbara Mikulski’s (D-Md.) office; performing street theater featuring Mr. Moneybags and the Koch brothers trying to buy Uncle Sam at U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu’s (D-La.) office; and a woman bringing her grandchildren, ages 4-6 years old, to U.S. Sen. Al Franken’s (D-Minn.) office to present a thank you note. In Montpelier, Vt., activists in patriotic attire will march in the July 3 parade, joined by U.S. Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), and then hold a rally at a nearby pavilion.

Events are being held in 38 states and are taking place in cities ranging from Los Angeles, Calif., to Baton Rouge, La., from Cleveland, Ohio, to Memphis, Tenn.

“Patriotic Americans across the country are demanding a constitutional amendment to restore our democracy,” said Public Citizen President Robert Weissman. “In advance of Independence Day, Americans are demanding our elections be independent of big money and corporate domination.”

The amendment is in response to the U.S. Supreme Court rulings in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (FEC) and McCutcheon v. FEC. In Citizens United, the court gave corporations the green light to spend unlimited sums to influence elections. As a result, spending by outside groups – those not affiliated with campaigns – skyrocketed. In McCutcheon, the court struck down the aggregate campaign spending limits, allowing the super-wealthy to contribute millions of dollars directly to candidates, political parties and joint fundraising committees.

These events are being organized by Money Out-Voters In, a coalition of groups that includes organizations ranging from Public Citizen to the Sierra Club, from the Communications Workers of America to USAction. Learn more about the collaborative and view the map of events.
http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/pressroomredirect.cfm?ID=4238

Great discussion! CA just did the same thing...

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