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KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 11:31 AM Oct 2014

Driving with Headlights off (before sunset), or riding in a car while Black?

You make the call: (contains profanity, not for playback at work / NSFW)



An Ohio police officer threatened to take away a couple’s baby after the father refused to show his ID during a traffic stop.

Officer Christopher Denny stopped 30-year-old Kathryn Said after watching her pick up 34-year-old Andre Stockett about 7 p.m. Wednesday outside an apartment building, reported the Sandusky Register.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/watch-ohio-man-films-himself-in-tense-verbal-battle-with-cop-over-his-id/

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
3. typical of racist amerikkka
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 01:23 PM
Oct 2014

and it's power mad racist 'peace officers'. All those dubious excuses. I'd like to know if the woman was white. This shit is really pushing it. Too many times this is happening, ALL OVER AMERIKKKA. Trying to make the black male 'docile' because President Obama gave him confidence to know black people are equal to any white man. White racist don't like that black males are talking back to unfairness and racist stupidity. Threatens their self perceived superiority. I think they're looking for a reason to create a slave caste again because we are such a 'threat' to the white power structure..... I'm glad he's still alive.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
4. argh, these guys are why I distrust cops. Being a middle aged white woman, i have been
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 01:33 PM
Oct 2014

hassled, can only imagine how bad it is for those outside my category like this couple are. And to threaten to take the 2 week baby? ASSHOLES

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
5. I feel for his girlfriend, but she was stupid for getting out of the car.
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 02:19 PM
Oct 2014

Stockett has some stones, and everything he said was on the money.
There was no reason for this other than to harass a mixed race couple.

Bullshit. This has me so pissed.

These are bad cops.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
6. In my opinion the passenger screwed up...
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 03:41 PM
Oct 2014

Number one rule do NOT argue with the Officer, be nice to them even if they are yelling at you, and tell them you will gladly go with them to the Magistrate or Justice of the Peace i.e. "Yes Officer I am NOT giving you my ID. if you dislike it, take me to the Justice of the Peace and charge me".

DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ELSE, DO NOT ARGUE WITH THE OFFICER. Just be quiet. That frustrates such police for they are looking for a reason to arrest you, do NOT give them one. Arguing with the officer is grounds for them to arrest you.

As to searching the car, the police would have had probable cause IF the dog indicated there was drugs present. As long as the dog stays outside the car, it is NOT a search.

Please remember, the Courts have long ruled that given the mobility of a Automobile Police have a broad right to search automobiles. Never AGREE to the search, but do NOT try to stop it or prevent it. i.e. "Yes Officer, if you believe you have the right to search my car, here are the keys, but I am NOT Agreeing to such a search".

This passenger violated the above rules, he ARGUED with the Officers. That is a BIG MISTAKE. Instead make you point and be quiet. Say you are NOT agreeing to any search, but do NOT interfere with the Police during the search. That gives you lawyer the most to work with in an criminal charge OR in any civil action against the Police.

The Police understand the above rules, and thus do they best to provoke people so they do something stupid, like arguing with the Police. That is called "Interfering with the duties of an Officer" and thus grounds for your arrest. Yes, I know a lot of people are NOT going to like what I am saying, but you do NOT want to look like a "bad guy" by arguing with the officers (whom will be assumed to be the "good guys" in most litigation UNTIL shown to be otherwise).

Thus do NO Argue with the Police, co-operate with them, record what they are doing (Thus I have no problem with the video recordings of the situation) and look like you are willing to work with the Police, but at the same time maintaining your rights. Leave the officers show they bad side. Most time that will end in no charges and the police walking away.

I know people do NOT like being stopped by the Police, especially if there is NO REASON FOR IT except one of the riders in the Car is an African American. Thus "Driving while Black" may be the REAL reason the Police pulled someone over, but no one will charged with that crime, but the crime of interfering with the duties of a Police officer OR similar charge do to the VERBAL objections the driver/passengers make to the Officer when the vehicle was pulled over.

My point is DO NOT GIVE THE POLICE THAT OPTION. Be Calm, make your point and be quite afterward. Do NOT continued to argue with the Police, all it will get you is arrested. Talk to an attorney afterward about the stop, many will tell you what your options are and direct you to an attorney who may think you have a case. The best case is where the Officers are clearly provoking the people they arrest AND the arrested people can be shown NOT to do anything to prevent the Police from doing their job EXCEPT refusing to give up their constitutional rights.

Worse, the police know this and by acting the person stopped by the police remaining calm, they often will back down and look for other victims.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
8. if Police say the dog alerted from outside the car, can they then, lawfully, enter the car?
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 03:53 PM
Oct 2014

or do they need a warrant to proceed with that?

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
9. The dog "Alert" is generally sufficient "Probable Cause" for a search.
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 04:00 PM
Oct 2014

Given that the car is "Mobile" and thus the drugs could be moved before a warrant can be obtained, searches are generally allowed in such situations. I know the car was already stopped by the police, and in theory they had time to get a warrant, but the Federal courts have NOT required an actual Search Warrant in such situations (States courts may have to follow stricter state laws, i.e. depending on the state, someone may have to get the warrant BEFORE their search the car. in most states the only real restriction is the Federal Constitutional one but in some states stricter rules apply to such searches).

robbob

(3,530 posts)
12. There was a video posted
Tue Oct 7, 2014, 10:38 AM
Oct 2014

...showing how easy it is for the police to give a subtle sign command which causes the dog to jump up and therefore 'flag' the car. Any time a cop wants to search a vehicle they can easily use this as a pretext.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
13. If that is the case, then the dog is NOT certifiable as a Drug dog
Tue Oct 7, 2014, 11:08 AM
Oct 2014

The police can NOT use a dog as a pretext for a search, if it can be shown that the dog did NOT act as the dog had been trained when drugs are present, but did the same act upon a signal from the dog's handler, then that indication of drugs being present is NOT probable cause for a search. If it can be SHOWN that the dog did NOT act on the smell of drugs but upon a hand signal, then the search is illegal (i.e. no probable cause).

One of the problems with using dogs is they can smell Cocaine on 20 dollars bills. Cocaine is one of the stickiest substance known to man, it will stick to anything. 20 dollar bills coming out of the Federal Reserve often has enough cocaine on them for a dog to smell, for the same machines that handle new 20 dollar bills, handle older 20 dollar bills that are to be reissued. The older bills have cocaine on them, contaminate the machines, so even newly printed bills have cocaine on them.

When a judge was faced with this fact, he dismissed the confiscation of money on the grounds that so many people would thus have contaminated 20 dollar bills on them (something like 99% of the population), the mere fact a dog could smell the cocaine was NOT probable cause of drug dealing.

Thus when the person arrested is tried at trial, his attorney can ask the handler of the dog if the dog could have acted the way the dog did for anything else then drugs? If the officer lies, that is perjury, if he tells the truth out goes the arrest. It is best to be able to show the Dog has been trained to do the same indication of drugs if shown a hand signal thus catch the officer lying. Most officers do NOT want to lose their job, if caught lying under oath there goes their job, thus most will tell the truth. For those officers who will lie, you have to wait for their lies to catch up with them, then pounce.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
7. The police say that that isn't the sun in the video (!?)
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 03:42 PM
Oct 2014
Sandusky Assistant Police Chief Phil Frost told the Register that the sun that appears to be seen in the video isn't the sun but is instead the flash from Stockett's camera.


 

lobodons

(1,290 posts)
10. Strong camera light
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 04:01 PM
Oct 2014

Dang his camera light is strong. Look how it lights up the whole neighborhood.

Old Crow

(2,212 posts)
11. I found this REALLY, REALLY hard to watch.
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 05:45 PM
Oct 2014

Yet I've watched it twice now. It brings a lump to my throat. What has gone wrong with our society that police think this is acceptable? If a thousand people watched this, I'm convinced 998 of them would acknowledge that the video shows two citizens with a baby who are being terrorized by the police.

WTF. Holy heck, this upsets me.

Incidentally, I agree with the Sandusky police chief on one thing: that is the phone's camera light shining in the window glass and not the sun. It's pretty clearly dusk. That said, in a normal society--as opposed to a screwed up dysfunctional one--a police officer, on finding that the woman's driver's license is valid, would issue a warning, with words to the effect, "Hey, I pulled you over because you really ought to have your lights on when driving at dusk--especially if you've got a baby onboard. Drive carefully. Have a good evening, M'am."

Yeah, I know. That imagined act of civility above seems like a fantasy in the America we're currently living in--just as much a fantasy as the motto of countless police departments: "To Serve and Protect."

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