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mother earth

(6,002 posts) Tue Dec 9, 2014, 10:45 AM Dec 2014

"This is a man not just without a conscience, but a man proud of it." Andrew Sullivan re: Bush Jr.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/12/08/the-torture-defenders-fan-out/

THE TORTURE DEFENDERS FAN OUT

Everything the president said above is untrue – and it appears that the looming Senate Intelligence Committee report on the torture program will soon prove it. The US did torture many many people with techniques devised by Nazis and Communists, sometimes in former KGB facilities. The CIA itself admits in its internal documents that none of it worked or gave us any actionable intelligence that wasn’t discovered through legal means. The torture techniques were not implemented by highly-trained professionals, but by goonish amateurs who concealed what they were doing and lied about it to superiors. All the techniques were and are clearly illegal under US and international law.

And we’re told there is some exculpatory evidence in the report, suggesting that Bush and Cheney and even Addington were misled as well – giving the former president some lee-way to explain how he came to create a torture program that will forever taint this country and has already done so much to damage its soft power. Maybe he could tell the truth and say that the extent and nature of the torture was kept from him and that he can now see what went so horribly wrong. But nah:

Some former administration officials privately encouraged the president and his top advisers to use the report to disclaim responsibility for the interrogation program on the grounds that they were not kept fully informed. But Mr. Bush and his inner circle rejected that suggestion. “Even if some officials privately believe they were not given all the facts, they feel it would be immoral and disloyal to throw the C.I.A. to the wolves at this point,” said one former official, who like others did not want to be identified speaking about the report before its release.

(continued at link above)

14 replies

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Highlight:

"This is a man not just without a conscience, but a man proud of it." Andrew Sullivan re: Bush Jr. (Original Post) mother earth Dec 2014 OP

Sometimes Sullivan nails it, another excerpt. mother earth Dec 2014 #1

Please stop giving Andrew Sullivan free publicity here. closeupready Dec 2014 #2

I hear you, but when he's right...he can be eloquent. nt mother earth Dec 2014 #3

I love it maindawg Dec 2014 #4

Personally, I think the CIA has enough on Bush, Cheney, Addison & the whole crew Jackpine Radical Dec 2014 #5

Bush the Lesser... gregcrawford Dec 2014 #6

And the beauty of it is... RufusTFirefly Dec 2014 #8

TEXTBOOK.... Plucketeer Dec 2014 #7

We are hearing NOW this is a "man" who was "uncomfortable" when torture was revealed…. MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #9

Get that report out there, front and center Jack Rabbit Dec 2014 #10

Yes, excusing and dismissing this abomination of "democracy" enabled it, NOT IN OUR NAME mother earth Dec 2014 #12

W... czarjak Dec 2014 #11

The biggest mistake swilton Dec 2014 #13

Absolutely! mother earth Dec 2014 #14

mother earth

(6,002 posts)

1. Sometimes Sullivan nails it, another excerpt.

Reply to mother earth (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 10:48 AM

Dec 2014

“Whatever the report says …”

Denial doesn’t get much clearer than that – and it is of a piece with the reckless disengagement, sickening indifference and grotesque negligence that marked his catastrophic time in the Oval Office. In the wake of the shock of Abu Ghraib, Bush disavowed the atrocities, insisting that they did not represent America, that they were counter to American values, and that he was shocked and disgusted by them. And yet, when a report is imminent outlining acts of torture and abuse far worse than Abu Ghraib, and directly under his own authority, he insists that whatever is detailed in the report, the culprits are heroes and patriots, and “we’re lucky as a nation to have them.”

How does one begin to square that cognitive dissonance? How to explain how a believing Christian can describe brutal torture sessions as things to defend and be proud of? And how can the torture of human beings – and the cover-up of the same – be part of American “patriotism”? This is a man not just without a conscience, but a man proud of it. He had a chance to reflect on what his fateful decision to waive the Geneva Conventions after 9/11 produced; and he has decided to own all of it. And we shall soon see what exactly that is.

closeupready

(29,503 posts)

2. Please stop giving Andrew Sullivan free publicity here.

Reply to mother earth (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:02 AM

Dec 2014

Just a request, not a demand. TIA.

mother earth

(6,002 posts)

3. I hear you, but when he's right...he can be eloquent. nt

Reply to closeupready (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:10 AM

Dec 2014

maindawg

(1,151 posts)

4. I love it

Reply to mother earth (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:48 AM

Dec 2014

I think the Democrats should work hard to keep W in the news and front center of the GOP. People hate that guy and it will motivate them to vote.
Use his image to remind people of his crimes and his conviction by the world court. Remind them of the disasters we all endured by his incompetence. And the snarling sneering criminal puppet master Dick C.
And when they open their mouth , make it big news.because they are either lying or lashing out every time.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)

5. Personally, I think the CIA has enough on Bush, Cheney, Addison & the whole crew

Reply to mother earth (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:54 AM

Dec 2014

to make Goddam sure nothing comes at them from that quarter.

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)

6. Bush the Lesser...

Reply to mother earth (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 12:26 PM

Dec 2014

... is a textbook sociopath. He is congenitally incapable of perceiving his own actions as wrong, because, in his twisted mind, nothing that serves his immediate purposes can possibly BE wrong. If Dubya be happy, what the hell else matters?

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)

8. And the beauty of it is...

Reply to gregcrawford (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 01:25 PM

Dec 2014

... that this aspect of his personality troubles many of us deeply but doesn't bother him in the least. I always thought it must be terribly liberating to have no conscience. Unfortunately, I'm saddled with one.

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)

7. TEXTBOOK....

Reply to mother earth (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 01:00 PM

Dec 2014

(and not a Texas Textbook either) example of what a lying son of a bitch looks like.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)

9. We are hearing NOW this is a "man" who was "uncomfortable" when torture was revealed….

Reply to mother earth (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 01:31 PM

Dec 2014

I'll bet it hurt a lot to have to lie just like ex-CIA director Daddy taught him to.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)

10. Get that report out there, front and center

Reply to mother earth (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 02:14 PM

Dec 2014

If we can't put the perps on trial, we can tar and feather the bastards and any other bastard who let them walk.

mother earth

(6,002 posts)

12. Yes, excusing and dismissing this abomination of "democracy" enabled it, NOT IN OUR NAME

Reply to Jack Rabbit (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 03:32 PM

Dec 2014

should be the outcry.

The more we know, the more psychopathic it becomes. There is no value in tortured info, one would agree to anything and everything to make it stop. As Sullivan says in his article, learned from Nazis, no better than the tools of the Nazis, and may even be worst, given the advancements in technology, psychology, science, etc.

This becomes an issue for the courts, it always has been, and cries out for justice, esp. considering it stems from war(s) we were lied in to.

czarjak

(11,274 posts)

11. W...

Reply to mother earth (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 02:40 PM

Dec 2014

Defending the indefensible.

swilton

(5,069 posts)

13. The biggest mistake

Reply to mother earth (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 03:41 PM

Dec 2014

(and there were many) that this administration made was the failure to prosecute the Bush Administration (crime syndicate) for failure to uphold US/international laws and to hold them accountable.

To paraphrase an argument made by Paul Jay in 2012, that was the beginning of allowing the Republicans to rebrand themselves as populists.

mother earth

(6,002 posts)

14. Absolutely!

Reply to swilton (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 03:46 PM

Dec 2014

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