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GoLeft TV

(3,910 posts)
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 03:01 PM Dec 2014

Papantonio: Surprise! More Guns Means More Death

The right wing talking heads love to tell us that a good guy with a gun can help prevent tragedies like we’ve seen in the last few years. But as it turns out, open-carry laws and the rise in gun ownership have actually caused even more unnecessary deaths.

America's Lawyer, Mike Papantonio, talks about this with progressive host David Pakman.

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Papantonio: Surprise! More Guns Means More Death (Original Post) GoLeft TV Dec 2014 OP
The scientific correlation between a society with more guns and more gun deaths is irrefutable. Fred Sanders Dec 2014 #1
Fortunately, the rate of murders via gun is declining in the US friendly_iconoclast Dec 2014 #2
Yes, soon American murder rates with guns will be almost as low as Chile. Preventable deaths Fred Sanders Dec 2014 #3
Perhaps we could also restrict voting to those with post-secondary degrees: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2014 #4
Can you elaborate on your totally unrelated detour? Fred Sanders Dec 2014 #5
Very well then, how do you propose to reduce murder rates even further? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2014 #6
6 more killed by readily available firearms just now...it is an epidemic of gun violence: Fred Sanders Dec 2014 #7
Links, proposals... I see a pattern. NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #8
6 more killed today in Philly by easily available firearms, double that in Sydney,.......no response? Fred Sanders Dec 2014 #10
But wait, I thought everyone is waiting for us to follow in Australia's footsteps! NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #11
Bad day to be a gun control opposer...Philadelphia adds to the meat charts by at least 6 today... Fred Sanders Dec 2014 #12
Your ideas? You offered up Benjamin Studebaker and his warmed-over Techocracy: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2014 #15
Disarm the victims? pocoloco Dec 2014 #13
Disarm the victims? pocoloco Dec 2014 #14
Rates are declining. Also, why is Mexico excluded? NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #9

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
1. The scientific correlation between a society with more guns and more gun deaths is irrefutable.
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 03:29 PM
Dec 2014

Guns make death and injury on a mass scale just so much easier, fatal accidents and suicides so much more likely, mayhem and carnage with the squeeze of a finger, and after all it is what firearms were designed to do, kill and injure rapidly and easily. The mentally unstable and the pathologically violent are the only ones thankful for the easy access to these weapons. Not much use otherwise than for the military and police and folks living in forests, and who hunts for food anymore?








 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
2. Fortunately, the rate of murders via gun is declining in the US
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 03:49 PM
Dec 2014

Fortunately for most people, that is- those of an authoritarian bent would
probably prefer the statistics in these links remain obscure:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172156018

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172155609

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/1995/95sec2.pdf

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-offense/expandedoffensemain_final


These will, of course, be small comfort to those that believe some methods of death
are somehow worse than others...

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
3. Yes, soon American murder rates with guns will be almost as low as Chile. Preventable deaths
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 03:54 PM
Dec 2014

are preventable deaths...eliminate the widespread possession of unneeded weapons. Not rocket science, just logic and statistically sound.

Love the accusations of "authoritarianism", tells a lot about the paranoia that drives gun ownership at these ridiculous rates.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
5. Can you elaborate on your totally unrelated detour?
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 04:15 PM
Dec 2014

Back to the topic, America and its shameful gun murder rates, my graphs are really good, no?

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
6. Very well then, how do you propose to reduce murder rates even further?
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 04:23 PM
Dec 2014

Certainly, liberal availabilty of legal firearms hasn't resulted in Canada, Finland,
Norway and Switzerland becoming charnel houses.

And why *gun* murder rates, in particular? Are not victims via other methods just
as dead?

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
10. 6 more killed today in Philly by easily available firearms, double that in Sydney,.......no response?
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 05:37 PM
Dec 2014

One can post everyday and just a matter of time before another preventable, inexplicable violent death by gun in America to add to the statistical carnage.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
15. Your ideas? You offered up Benjamin Studebaker and his warmed-over Techocracy:
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 12:14 AM
Dec 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172157321

Demilitarization of the Police Requires Demilitarization of Civilians | Benjamin Studebaker


http://benjaminstudebaker.com/about/

IV. Sophiarchism

Posts in this category will discuss my concept of the sophiarchist state (as opposed to the democratic or traditionally authoritarian states), a concept of which I am most fond.



http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2013/08/30/reintroduction-to-sophiarchism-2/


My proposed solution to all of this I term sophiarchism. The principle theoretical contention of sophiarchism is that we need to ensure that those who rule in our societies are qualified, that they have devoted many years reading, writing, and thinking about statecraft. The controversial element in my theory is that, in order to achieve this state of affairs, we need to restrict access to the vote, and we need to restrict who can run for office down to those that have these qualifications...


...I argue that, at present, the most reasonable way to do this would be restrict the vote to people with a degree in a social science discipline (political science, economics, philosophy, law, history, and sociology immediately to my mind as relevant disciplines). There maybe be room to argue as to how high a level a degree we should require–BA, MA, or PhD. In my view, the more advanced the degree requirement, the better our voting pool will be. Given that many BA’s and MA’s end up in unrelated fields, while most social science PhD’s end up working in academia, the PhD requirement also helps to ensure that specific interest groups with large numbers of social science BA’s and MA’s (like investment bankers) don’t end up unduly influencing state policy. PhD’s have wide-ranging opinions that do not conform to any narrow ideology and they put in many years reading, writing, and thinking about the state and society in order to earn their qualifications. They all have to submit well-constructed dissertations and cannot get by on mere memorization of facts.


After this royalist craptrap was righteously denounced, you had the crust
to proclaim yourself arbiter of who and what is and is not progressive:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172157321#post14

The subject of gun control has always attracted self-appointed politruks,
but you take the cake- touting the work of a writer who makes George F. Will
look like a hippie,
while simultaneously pronouncing anathema on others for a purported lack of progressivism...



 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
9. Rates are declining. Also, why is Mexico excluded?
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 05:19 PM
Dec 2014

Propaganda only works if the graphs are lies.

Nice work finding fabricated data to make your case

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