but that response worked like a fart in a windstorm.

No added value in your cerebral clutter.

The irony is the obvious racism of this OP. Because some voters who happen to be black support Bernie, then all black voters must, since black people (it is presumed) have no agency at all. Their blackness (apparently) defines them.



Anyway, as I said. Let them have their fun. Come late March, they'll realize that the polls weren't lying.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

... we will have had that much more one-to-one with the actual black voters like we've been doing grass roots all along.

You can't be with me on these walks, but if you were, you'd see who is the candidate who's not trying to pull the wool over any voter's head, in particular, black voters.

Try to reread what I wrote with an eye towards comprehension this time.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

I mean seriously, guy, you sound like Ann Coulter: "Our blacks are so much better than their blacks".

Maybe more like Romney, bragging that Bernie has "Binders full of women blacks".

You don't see it, but that sure as hell isn't because it isn't there.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

It's a post about a part of a voting block; a demographic, and their views. Are you saying if someone posts about female voters who support Bernie, its sexist? Or posts about Jewish voters, its anti-semitic?

And "Our blacks are so much better than their blacks" ? Where did I say or even imply such a thing? I mean seriously.

Still waiting for you to point out the obvious racism in the OP.

Methinks someone has quite a skewed view of things. Ain't the OP.

I will be happy after Super Tuesday

On Mon Dec 14, 2015, 11:05 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

A few Black voters not Black voters
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?c ... pid=314609

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Grotesque. 'Real' black people vote a certain way, we're being told. But since the HillaryClintonSupporters.com crowd now knows how to game alerts, this email I'll be fine.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Dec 14, 2015, 11:13 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: not sure how this is offensive??
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Explanation: barely legible and ridiculous alert
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Explanation: Did you learn how to game alerts? Is this what this is about?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

opposite - that he sees alot of Hillary support.

I don't like this thread and find it revolting. Would love to continue to this conversation over in the AA forum. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1187

for Sanders supporters which makes how quiet she's been on all this very interesting. And maybe even a bit telling.

In all honesty, I am more gungho about Bernie than I ever was about Obama. I think it's because Bernie has made a clear line in the sand. He's like Single payer, not part of it. He's pro Middle East coalition building not ousting a leader we think is bad without creating a support system and anti-war. He's anti-corporations and supportive of the little people. Yeah, I'm back.

So I'm not sure where the "He's pro Middle East coalition building not ousting a leader we think is bad" comes from.

He definitely seems anti-corporation and pro-middle class. I'll definitely give you that.

On the West Harlem side I note something different (not to mention I live near City College so it's mainly students which also reflects a Bernie support). But this was again similar to when Obama was running. There would be pockets of Pro Obama and Pro Hilary in Harlem. But Black voters minds can be changed and enlightened. Contrary to the MSM's views on Black and Latino voters we can be enlightened on different view points and processes. We're not mindless zombies.

I think plenty of "enlightened" black people support lots of people for president. And it seems that right now, the majority of black folks -- "enlightened" or not -- are supporting Clinton. But that could certainly change.

What I mean is Blacks who are looking at the issues versus on personality. Remember when Obama was running against Hilary, I found that majority of Blacks were Hilary supporters even around my way in Harlem. There were pockets but by and large very Hilary supportive because of Bill Clinton. Over time that started to change. Obama was making more noise and making sense and speaking the words we wanted to hear. I did notice my area go from strong Hilary to strong and only Obama. It did help that Hilary's campaign was making some rather inflammatory statements and her sense of entitlement was strong. I feel that will be the case here as Hilary has by and large ostracized a good number of people in the Latino community.

than the 5 or 6 black people in this video...hell, I'm not even one of them.

And Bernie would have a few more on DU if they weren't bullied by some of those who are Hillary supporters.

!

and no one is bullying me...but I know that the Sanders supporters are getting n my nerves while the Hillary supporters at least, to me, act as if they want my vote.

I can only speak to hw I have been treated here and in other places. It's been Sanders supporters, for the most part, that are the browbeating ones, in my experience.

In fact they were bullied and one was practically called a traitor to his race.

!

as far as black people are concerned...for example, many supporters (black and white) here and other places (primarily DK) have harassed me about why I support Clinton, no matter how many times I have said that I do not support Clinton at this time.

And yes, it has gotten to the point where it has a good deal to do with me being turned off to Sanders.

Claims like the one made in this headline, for example (that might be a simple grammatical mistake).

Never mind some of the stuff that I have briefly seen on Twitter and in other places.

From this diary at DK.

#1: You are Bernie Sanders to the people you meet. They will stick around if you display Bernie’s values.

#2: Negative campaigning takes a vote away. It does not gain a vote. Instead you need a positive message. You can use active listening techniques to achieve this.

Many Trump and Cruz and other Republican supporters write and act abhorrently - But that is NOT the reason I do not support those candidates.

Some of the more excitable Hillary AND Bernie supporters also go overboard at times. - But that is NOT the reason I support Bernie. I base my support on what the candidate says, what their record is, who are their backers. I support a candidate that has said he is sick and tired about hearing about Hillary's damn emails. The candidate that refuses to take the MSM bait and bash Hillary, and would rather talk about the issues. Just because some of his "supporters" do not follow his example, does not affect how I see the candidate. But each to his/her own.

I can tell you one thing about Bernie supporters on DU. They have gotten more than a little tired of the Hillary supporters' false meme as it pertains to Bernie and race issues. They tried very hard to paint him as a racist and as such, Bernie supporters defended him. One black person left DU because they were harrassed for standing up for Bernie and his record of fighting for racial equality.

During this time, there were a handful of Hillary supporters posing as Bernie supporters and expressing a lot of 'concern' about his policies being only economic and only for 'white males'. I'm sure you can understand how despicable that is and how it would make people feel and react. We were even told that we are not supposed to bring up his record because it doesn't matter. Since when has a politician's record not mattered???

Then with the whole BLM kerfuffle, well I missed/stayed out of it for the most part, but I can tell you that there was a lot of outrage towards Bernie by Hillary supporters and yet when Hillary did worse by BLM there was nary a peep from them.

There is a concerted effort by DU Hillary supporters to make it seem as though Bernie is not for racial equality, that he has no record or stance on fighting for social justice and that he is only fighting for economic equality. Nothing could be further from the truth and yet we hear over and over again, to this day, that he is a "one issue candidate" seriously???

So, my experience is that the vocal DU Hillary supporters are the worst. They've even gone so far as to set up an external site just to spew hatred. I don't know of any site of Bernie supporters doing that.

I truly believe that Bernie is the best candidate for the people - ALL people - and that we NEED him to be president because I think Hillary is way too close to corporate America and will not take the necessary steps to get policy back to working for the people.

I hope you can take whatever your experience of Bernie supporters on here is with a grain of salt and remember that they are only anonymous people on the internet and also that they are reacting to a lot of bullshit thrown at them by Hillary supporters. And I don't mean normal back and forth about policy - we welcome that - I mean the vicious smear attempts that try to paint him as a racist, "NRA puppet", sexist, etc... all without speaking truths about policy and his record.

Unfortunately, this OP is an example of what Bernie supporters feel they must express to counteract all the 'Bernie doesn't care about black people' posts that have been thrown around DU for so long and were saturating the board when he first announced. I'm sorry it hits you the wrong way. I hope we can do better and I hope you can understand where it is coming from.

.

Good advice. Especially the part about negative campaigning and active listening.

And I hear your frustration. I was so put off by Sanders supporters early on that I never seriously considered supporting him either. The FIRST time I posted in GD: P this season, not even about Sanders, but about some things that Sanders supporters were saying about MLK, I got roasted as a "hillarian" and "camp weathervane". I am like, What is that and who are you? Rude. And I was not even criticizing Sanders, just a thing a random supporter said.

Even when I was not committing to Hillary, no one on that side was rude. They didn't even sell me hard. They knew all they had to do was be nice and wait.

see - it's easy and no bullying.

in the most recent poll in South Carolina.

So dream on.

in S.C. seems very solid.

doesn't really compare.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/12/bernie_sanders_message_discipline_may_not_be_enough_to_win.html

Clinton has two firewalls immediately following Iowa and New Hampshire. Her strong support among Latino voters and organized labor positions her well for a win in the Feb. 20, 2016, Nevada caucuses. Her dominant support among black voters, who comprise a majority of South Carolina Democratic voters, has helped her maintain a roughly 50-percentage point lead over Sanders in the state that hosts its primary on Feb. 27. Three days later is Super Tuesday, featuring numerous states in which black voters similarly exercise a major role.

When it comes to “message discipline,” Sanders is far and away the best candidate in the field.
Rudimentary calculations would suggest that Sanders still needs to expand his voting base beyond young people and white liberals and into minority voters, who comprise a large and growing part of the Democratic base. Otherwise, even the ideal kickoff of twin victories in Iowa and New Hampshire would be for naught, and Clinton would cruise through the South to the nomination after losing the first two nominating contests—just as her husband did in 1992.

Last edited Tue Dec 15, 2015, 01:59 AM - Edit history (1)

it's a 48-point lead in a state where Sanders has rarely polled within 35 points (whereas Obama had leads in SC even prior to Iowa)

Nothing like the difference between Hillary and Obama and 2008.

With regard to his November tour -- nice, but it didn't raise his poll numbers. In Dec he was still almost 50 points behind Hillary.

But I haven't seen the US government post any poll results. That sounds very odd.

in South Carolina.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/sc/south_carolina_democratic_presidential_primary-4167.html#polls

And Obama can claim to have had a lead in some 2008 SC polls as early as May of 2007 and had leads in South Carolina prior to the Iowa caucuses in 2008.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/sc/south_carolina_democratic_primary-234.html#polls

We need a liberal in the White House. No more moderate Republicans please.

.

Bernie and MLK are not co-owners of that legacy...very far from it and very insulting to the legacy of Dr. King.

okay....

Yes.

The headline, as it reads, seems to say that the legacy belongs to both men equally.

The legacy does NOT belong to Sanders in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

Hillary first heard him speak when she was only 14 years old and that experience left a permanent impression on her.

of the parents she deeply loved, to the progressive values she developed in college.

Bernie's parents were Democrats -- he didn't have to make the leap she did.

from Brooklyn at that time...

Can't imagine what you think of Senator Warren, who was a Republican as late as 1996.....

Or is your ire selective?

I just pointed out that influence didn't add up to beans, she still sided with a politician that was against civil rights.

It took her years to be swayed to the Democratic way of thinking.

Funny, that's how it always is with Clinton. It takes years and years for her to evolve towards standard Democratic policies.

How much did I miss ?
this person is very active liberal in local and state politics, wonder how many BS supporters are even registered democrats?

how one may infer that the quoted "legacy" are one in the same; however, one can also infer that each have their own legacy for which black voters can appreciate and gravitate to. Both men have/had similar goals, although MLK had much more at stake and much bigger obstacles to overcome. Still, their legacies could be considered cousins.

Seems a whole lot farther from it than Bernie to me.

grammatically, it makes an absurd claim.

Videos like this remind me of "hype videos" that college football fans do for their team to cheer them on in an upcoming rivalry game.

So I would not know.

But if one was choosing the one closest to MLKs purpose it would not be Hillary.

She was a Goldwater girl in high school, living with her Republican parents. But she strongly moved away from their views in college.

Did you go to school with her?

But so she heard MLK speak and then became a Goldwater girl...what does that say?

So inspired she was she cast her lot with a Republican.

Last edited Mon Dec 14, 2015, 11:48 PM - Edit history (1)

What does it say? It says that she was a teen who loved her parents and accepted their views -- till she didn't.

shoot, that might still be a bit much for Park Ridge

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/16/1408554/-Please-stop-the-Goldwater-Girl-spam-it-s-only-half-of-the-story

Mind you, I'm not all that complementary to Clinton in that piece but the Goldwater Girl bullshit is bullshit.

In any case, your link reported the same thing I've read elsewhere -- that her youth minister took the youth group to visit black churches, and to hear Dr. King, and that made a permanent impression on her.

Dr. King was assassinated.

I am inspired (in part) by it, yes. But I didn't suffer the slings and arrows of anything resembling what Dr. King went through and neither did Bernie Sanders.

Bernie Sanders gave no inspirational speeches at that time, wrote volumes of books, or led a bus boycott. etc, etc. etc.

He was jailed twice and was released when he paid $25. And Sanders has not made the ignorant claim for himself that this headline does.

read anything you choose in the OP header, it is not grammatically correct in that is does in a way seem to link the legacy to both Berni and MLK, but I don't think that was the intent...(IMHO)

Not trying to be a smart ass here but.

If you are looking for a reason to vote for or against anyone and things that happen to you on this or any other message board are your deciding factors you might want to look into another way to make your decisions..

(or non-decision, it now seems, as my state's primary isn't until March 15th)

It is not until May, pretty much all over by then... We need a national primary ..

You arent a very good listener...

Are you.




If you arent really sick of this shit yet, then I dont know, you must be. I know you are.

The way you are talked to here is amazing.

was there at the time and a part of the movement. So much word parsing and petty and picky it's almost pathetic... give it a rest. He's a human being and a politician. He has standards and beliefs. They were nourished back in MLK's day and along side a great man...and yes, he gets creds for that.

and he was never "along side" MLK, even Sanders has never made that outrageous claim.

felt like they were a part of it. And yes, Bernie has a lengthy record that reveals his lifelong policy of defending Civil Rights....which back in the day, meant Black Civil Rights. Whites didn't need to fight...they already had them. And whites who fought with blacks were special people...brave...got shot at, etc.

Moving right along...

than many other kids at the University of Chicago did at that time...UofC was a hotbed of radical politics during the civil rights movement

I get it you are for Hillary...and there's nothing wrong with that. Oh, and how many from that "hotbed" are now running for President?

Again, moving right along.

Sometimes tough love like tough on crime bills. And things like lending a helping hand when needed most by single mothers by helping them find bootstraps to pull up when supporting welfare reform to get so many good people off of it. And knowing when to challenge and encourage hard work by comparing how hard working white people are so they knew SHE knew they could do better.

Not to mention all the job opportunities for the recipients of tough love within the private prison system where people can earn a few honest pennies an hour.

I will never believe that anyone would ever abandon all that love, that tough, tough love that Hillary has shown over the years. This video is a fabrication of the right wing commie fascist subversives that never loved her back anyway.

For a second, I thought you were being serious...

Until they look into my eyes and talk to me at least, then most usually warm up to me rather quickly.

in Chicago brutally beaten by police near campus earlier this year explains his endorsement of Bernie Sanders candidacy and racial justice plan, Daily Kos, Dec. 9, 2015:



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/12/09/1458539/--MarteseJohnson-Endorses-Bernie-Sanders-for-President

1) Bernie Sanders voted for it too.

2) Yes, Bill Clinton, in part was responding, in part, to African American constituents when that crime bill passed

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/10/07/the-clintons-aren-t-the-only-ones-to-blame-for-the-crime-bill#.r0n8EMfaR

I think she still might, but being primary season she may have changed her mind temporarily on that as with many of her long time stances. Ah the memories of decades of Hillary going on and on about marriage being a sacred thing between a man and a woman, until she wasn't about two years ago when only Republicans were still holding on to that bit of bigotry.

That is why I love and support Hillary so much, if you don't like her position on something just give it a minute, it will change.

To know her is to love her, if you give it just the right amount of time loving her will be as easy.

divide. She stands with one foot on both sides of that river.

The black voters in the commie fascist propaganda video. Just think how strong she made the survivors of her beloved cluster bombs, talk about empowering women and children! The ones that survived must love her very much!

really toughened up all those women. And that 12 year old rape victim, whose rapist HRC voluntarily defended pro bono. The old tough love philosophy - what doesn't kill you makes you strong, or something like that.

I am a little worried that perhaps she gazed into the abyss just a wee bit too long however.

As a scuba diver, one of my most memorable experiences (along with wreck diving on sunken Japanese ships from WWII in Truk Lagoon, Miocronesia), was gazing into the ocean's abyss off New Providence island/the Bahamas. I had dived to a depth of 120 feet, where the ocean floor sharply dropped off into inky darkness. It was an awesome, awe-inspiring sight. One could only imagine the fearsome deep sea pelagics lurking in those hidden depths.

The prospect of another Clintonian administration symbolizes a political abyss, with a corporate funded and controlled darkness devouring all the values and goals of progressive Democrats like me.

Tongue-Of-The-Ocean (the abyss)
One of the most dramatic features on New Providence Island is the Tongue-Of-The-Ocean which is a deep oceanic trench that is 120 miles long, and 24 miles wide, with depths reaching 6,000 feet. The Tongue spans the gap between New Providence and Andros Island and comes to with-in a half a mile of shore on the southwest side of New Providence. Imagine the Grand Canyon, filled with water, and within a 1/2 mile of a pristine beach.

Besides creating dramatic visual sights, the Tongue-Of-The-Ocean also creates a unique marine environment. The deep waters bring large pelagic marine life close to shore. Nutrients from the deep well-up through the colder deep waters to the shallower warm waters creating nutrient rich waters in the shallows.

I fear you are right however, if the Oligarchy wing of the party gets yet more terms to erase the party of the working class from existence. As it is we are but a few more bipartisan corporate policies and trade agreements away now from ever regaining the sort of Democracy we were promised as children. If the party does not turn back now, hard left, there will only be a Fascist party and a Republican party left in America - no matter the nostalgic names used such as "Republican" and "Democratic".

Of course Senator Clinton did not expect her vote on cluster bombs to become an issue in a presidential campaign. But that vote is one of many examples in a pattern of indifference to the welfare of children in the Developing World. (For detailed descriptions of others, such as sanctions read the entire article at the link.)

Because Clinton is now taking credit for the White House years, when she was a partner in power, we should also look closely at the Clinton policy regarding landmines, an issue of great concern to parents, to all those who care for children. The U.S. is the leading manufacturer of landmines. For families across the rest of the globe, landmines are buried terror. More than 100 million landmines are deployed in over 60 countries worldwide--nine million in Angola, 10 million in Cambodia. About 20,000 M14 antipersonnel mines are buried in the mountain areas of Yong-do, South Korea. According to U.N. estimates, 26,000 people, mostly civilians in developing countries, are killed or mutilated by landmines every year. In rural areas landmines are so ubiquitous and lethal, peasants risk their lives to earn a living tilling the soil and planting crops.

The worldwide movement to ban landmines burgeoned in the Clinton years. It was a visionary U.S. citizen, Jody Williams of Vermont, who won the Nobel Peace Prize for her efforts to end the ignominy of landmines. And it was primarily in defense of children that Princess Diana, speaking from a minefield in Angola, raised international awareness about devastation caused by weapons from the West.

In December 1997, 137 nations, more than two-thirds of the world, signed the Ottawa treaty, an agreement to ban the use, production, stockpiling and transfer of anti-personnel landmines. How did the Clintons respond to world opinion, to the humanitarian movement against landmines?

President Clinton flat out refused to become party to the Ottawa convention. As he put it, "I could not sign in good conscience the treaty banning landmines." In "good conscience"?! Are landmines good for children?

and Bernie will continue to use them in "a more selective way" of course.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="

I think you don't quite understand how indiscriminate cluster bombing is. I suppose you also disagree with using drone strikes much less than they are now (well, we likely wouldn't need any precision strikes at all if we could blanket huge areas with cluster bombs and really get the body count up to your-satisfaction).

Tell me, have you ever considered seeing a therapist?

I'm actually against both kinds of bombings, if you must know...I don't place a lot of trust in Bernie's being "more selective" statements, though.

Have a good night...please don't respond.

Hillary turned her back on the Democratic Majority, crossed over, and helped Bush & the NeoCons get their Illegal WAR ON.
That is the type of "selectivity" I will vote for.
The IWR is just one example....but a BIG one with no Middle-Ground,
and no desperate, grade school crying about how the Village Idiot from Crawford fooled her.


You either voted FOR the deaths of a Million INNOCENT Iraqis and uncountable injured for life,
or you voted AGAINST it.
Thankfully, the Democratic Majority voted AGAINST giving Bush a Blank Check and unquestioned support for invading the wrong country. Hillary, without hesitation, turned her back on them.

Wouldn't want folks who only view it on YouTube to not be aware that it only pertains to the six or so in the video. Do it now because it's starting to trend on Twitter. Nip it, nit it in the bud.

eom

eom

[font color="purple"]Go, Bernie!

rutt row.