Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

WhoIsNumberNone

(7,875 posts)
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:38 PM Dec 2015

TYT: Surrogate Mothers Refuse Abortion Despite Contract



Two surrogates in California, in two separate cases, are refusing to abort one of the triplets they are carrying. Their contract stipulates they are required to do so under the "selective reduction" clause of their contract but the judge might rule in favor of the biological mother’s right to choose. Cenk Uygur and Ana Kasparian (The Point) discuss on The Young Turks. Tell us what you think in the comment section below.

"Two California women, each pregnant with triplets, are claiming they are being pressured to ‘reduce’ the number of fetuses they carry to term.

Both women had signed a clear contract before becoming pregnant. But thinking about being pregnant and actually being so are two very different states.

On offer for surrogates Melissa Cook, 47, and Brittneyrose Torres, 26, both of California, was over $30,000, plus a bonus for each additional baby that resulted from their in vitro fertilization. Part of the fine print included a “selective reduction” clause—if the implantation resulted in a multiple pregnancy, the intended parents could request that one or more of the fetuses be terminated.” *

*Read more here http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/19/her-body-their-choice-when-a-surrogate-refuses-to-abort.html
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
1. Interesting.
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:12 PM
Dec 2015

As a participant in a IVF cycle, this is of interest to me, but looks like cut-and-dried contract law. If the contract is not honored, the intended parents should be free to walk away and recoup costs.

WhoIsNumberNone

(7,875 posts)
2. It's a very intriguing debate, certainly
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:36 PM
Dec 2015

...and a scenario which never would have occurred to me, since I have no involvement in anything relating to the world of surrogate mothers.

I'm a little aghast at the 'surplus inventory' clause in the contract. I was not aware that 'overstock' was so common- and who decides which one gets aborted, and which goes to term, and based on what criteria? I do agree with Ana, that it's the woman's body, and she shouldn't be compelled to have an abortion if she doesn't want one. But if she doesn't I think it would be fair to make her responsible for the disposition of the extra babies. But then what happens if the parents don't want the unwanted fruit of their loins to be put up for adoption by who-knows-who? Especially if the surrogate mother benefits financially by doing so? it's feeling like a whole new can of worms here.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
3. Yeah, I certainly don't think the biological mothers should be forced to abort.
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:44 PM
Dec 2015

How would you? Who would strap a woman down and do that? (Not going to happen.)

IVF often results in 'overages'. You induce release of multiple eggs at once with a variety of very expensive injections. About $5,000 worth of vials in a small cardboard box, to be specific. The eggs are harvested, and then implanted. Monitored for a few hours (about 9 IIRC) and then compared to see which are developing 'properly' for shape and division rate.

They then implant them. Implantation is a scattershot 'best guess'. You can get it close, but you can't make it actually attach and take hold. So, due to the cost, they usually throw in all the 'good' fertilized ovums, hoping for a decent implantation rate.

In my experience, we tried to implant 2, and none 'took'. All told, it was about $10k USD out of pocket to attempt that. Easier/cheaper to selectively reduce the implanted result, than to attempt to implant just one or two at a time.

Sometimes people freeze 'surplus' and go with a lower number in the initial attempt to implant, but IVF is often dealing with a pre-existing problem, like bad quality sperm or eggs, so the result is not always great. Out of 9 fertilized ovums, only 2 were worth attempting to implant, and the rest were already so far behind the curve, no point freezing them and trying later. Freezing further degrades the quality.

mostlyalurker

(37 posts)
10. Multiple Gestation pregnancies are dangerous to the mother and the fetuses
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 10:02 PM
Dec 2015

The reason these clauses are in the contracts for surrogates is because the higher order multiple pregnancies ( triplets or more ) have very high complication rates and often result in problems including pregnancy loss, extreme prematurity with all the resulting issues from that as well as being extremely hard on the carriers health and almost always requiring surgical delivery. So, there is good reason for the contracts to clarify what is expected when a multiple pregnancy is discovered.
These kinds of conflicts can also be avoided by better matching of surrogate carrier to intended parents. You shouldn't mix pro-lifers with pro- choices.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
4. Can't agree there. The biological parents initiated the pregnancy and are as accountable
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:01 PM
Dec 2015

Last edited Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

for the resulting life (lives) as if they had created the pregnancy in the more common way.

Prospective biological parents who would selectively abort fetuses because they didn't want multiple babies don't really sound like good parental prospects to me. Perhaps they should get a puppy instead.

I am pro choice, but we are talking three parents here, as well as the fetuses, not just two.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
5. Then don't agree to the contract.
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:09 PM
Dec 2015

That's what contracts are for, to ensure the product or service conforms to the buyer's expectations.

I don't know about CA, but in my state, when this process is complete, after a three day reconciliation period, the original birth certificate is marked Secret by the state, filed away, and a new one is issued with the new parents names on it, as if they'd given birth to the kid. The biological host has zero remaining interest in the child.

UNLESS

If the birth mother can show she was coerced, or forced into it, then it can be reversed. There's contract law for you.

The protections exist both ways. If the resulting child(ren) had a birth defect, the adoptive parents, per the contract, can't simply walk away and leave the surrogate stuck with it/them.

They wanted X. They got Y. The contract outlined the particulars of X. They should be free to walk away. The birth mother knew the rules going in. She could have said 'no' to that provision of the contract, or added to it, specifying that additional kids could be born, but the adoptive parents would only take and only be responsible for 2.

There's no magical metaphysical dimension to this because a fetus is involved.

Don't want to deal with shit like this, spell out a mutually agreeable contract. This potential outcome is known, and raised as a possibility in 100% of IVF cases, before they attempt the IVF cycle. 100% without fail.

Edit: I should add, the objection to 3+ may not be 'we don't want 3' but may be 'we don't want the added strain of a third+ on the two we are hoping for in utero.

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
7. But how would such a contract be enforceable? I agree that the woman
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:42 PM
Dec 2015

cannot be forced to have an abortion, no matter what contract she signed.

I don't know what the married couple can do besides terminating their end of the contract.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
8. Yeah, and I don't think the contract would be terminated with prejudice.
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:51 PM
Dec 2015

I don't think there would be damages to the surrogate, but I think the prospective parents should/could probably get whatever they have invested back out of it. Arbitrary enforcement of contracts is bad for all sides. Surrogates and intended parents. The contract protects both parties.

Maybe they can't get their money back, but they should certainly be able to walk away from the contract.

This could be an argument to require an insurance underwriter to this sort of contract as well. Instead of paying back out of pocket for whatever expenses were already covered, in this case, the surrogate could defer the costs to the insurance, since this isn't a situation the surrogate created on purpose. Basically they lost the dice roll against a random factor.

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
9. Your idea of an insurance underwriter is a good one, I think. I wonder if they
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:31 PM
Dec 2015

underwrite this sort of situation in California (where surrogacies seem more common than elsewhere.)

3catwoman3

(24,025 posts)
6. Paging Solomon.
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:38 PM
Dec 2015

Unless I missed it, neither the OP not the article at the link says anything about whose eggs were used. Were these women the actual biological mothers or the "gestational hosts"?

Ineeda

(3,626 posts)
11. If one party to the contract
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 11:57 AM
Dec 2015

is allowed to ignore or refuse to comply with the terms, then I assume the other party can as well. Perhaps the biological parents should walk away, leaving the 'host' to fend for herself and the (potentially) at-risk babies. Sad and complicated situation.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Video & Multimedia»TYT: Surrogate Mothers Re...